Which Essential Oils Company is Best? ~ Part 6–Personal Attacks, Bias, and Distillation
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Before I move on to the controversial issues in this post, here are the links to the other posts in this series.
– Which Essential Oils Company is Best? – Part 1
– Qualities of a Good Oils Brand
– 14 Tips to Spot Fake Essential Oil Brands
– Young Living vs. doTERRA
– Are Multi-Level Marketing Oils Worth It?
– Announcing “the Best” Essential Oils Company **
**Attention** – Some readers say that they can’t access that last post. If that is a problem for you, could I ask you to comment or email me at adrienne {at} wholenewmom {dot} com, and you can go to this post to get access to the company that I chose. Is Essential Oils Testing Reliable?
Now, back to the controversy.
I am typically not a fan of sensationalist titles for posts, but in this case, I kind of couldn’t resist.
First of all, I need to apologize that I am going to have to push out the “announcement” day of the Best Essential Oils Series–just one more day.
Why? Let me explain.
I really didn’t want to do this, but I felt that with all the controversy going on regarding my review process that I should take time to address more issues that have come up during this series. I want you to know that I am doing my homework and that I take what I am doing very seriously.
If you’ve been following along with the whole Best Essential Oils series, and have read the comments, you’ve seen that there have been a number of statements made, mostly by Dr. Robert Pappas. What you may not know is that he has been commenting about my posts, and my blog, on his Facebook page, and has private messaged me on Facebook a number of times.
I’ve had a load of stuff on my plate these past few weeks (meh–still do), so it has taken me awhile to do enough research into some of his more scientific statements so that I could respond intelligently.
Today I am going to do so. Because of the subject matter, this is going to be a much more lengthy post than usual, but I really thought it all needed to be addressed.
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Source of Information
Pappas has insinuated or directly asserted, that some of my statements with which he disagrees originated with Young Living (YL). That is completely not true. Here is one of his quotes from the comments on Part 4 of the Best Essential Oils Series:
This is just one of many claims that I am repeating information from YLHi, just wanted to clear up some things concerning your comments about 1st, 2nd, 3rd distillations because this is an area of misinformation that, as far as I can tell, originates from the YL reps going back quite a number of years and just never seems to die down.
Yes, I was a Young Living rep, but interestingly enough, the information that I got about these distillations of peppermint came from doTERRA’s support. You can see this in the next section about distillation.
Facts About Distillation of oils -1st, 2nd, 3rd and Complete
At the center of a lot of the controversy regarding my oils series is the distillation methods of oils, particularly peppermint.
I stated in Part 4 that doTERRA’s peppermint oil was a “complete distill.” Here is Pappas response from the comments:
“Who was it that told you their oil was “complete”? The word “complete” is not even a word that anyone in the essential oil industry would even use to describe a peppermint oil. Complete is used to describe a grade of Ylang Ylang oil and thats [sic] about it. Generally the best therapeutic oils also smell the best, at least thats [sic] been my experience.”
Here is an excerpt from the email that I received from the assistant to Dr. Hill, Chief Medical Advisor for doTERRA. Please note that she both uses the word “complete” and also discusses the 3 distillation stages to describe doTERRA’s peppermint.
Please apologize to her [Adrienne], I’m not sure why she didn’t receive the
response. You can let her know that our Peppermint uses complete
distillation. There is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and complete and we use complete.I hope this is helpful!
Thanks,
—
Haylee Caplin
doTERRA Product Support
Pappas also commented:
Anyway, regarding peppermint (and essential oils in general for that matter), there typically is no such concept as a 1st, 2nd or 3rd distillation.
and then later in a comment that I hadn’t approved until now (because I wanted to do more research before putting the information out there):
As for your question about the “1st distillation” I am guessing you might not have read my post completely about this or perhaps you just don’t believe me but this term is NEVER used in the industry and I would strongly recommend that you not use it either because its [sic] a misleading term. There is typically only ONE steam distillation of an oil to remove the oil from its plant material. When people say 1st distillation or 2nd distillation it conjures up images of redistilling the already spent botanical to get a less inferior oil. Nobody does this.
Well, this is a lot of info to digest, but here goes.
First of all, there are a host of references to these 1st, 2nd, and 3rd distillations that I found.
References to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Distillations from Oils Companies
These are references to this kind of distillation that I found doing an internet search.
1. “Even an oil which is quite truthfully described as pure may be of poor quality, and therefore of less value therapeutically. IF AN ESSENTIAL OIL COSTS MUCH LESS THAN YOU WOULD NORMALLY EXPECT TO PAY FOR IT, the oil may well be a third or fourth distillate from a batch of plant material which has already yielded the greater part of its properties to the first or second distillation.” Aromatherapy An A-Z, by Patricia Davis, 1988, reprinted 1994, Saffron Walden, The C.W. Daniel Company Ltd., England, pp. 278-280.
2. “LOW PRICES MAY ALSO MEAN THE OIL IS A SECOND OR THIRD DISTILLATION OF THE PLANT MATERIAL, in which case it will have far less therapeutic value.” – from Holistic Aromatherapy, A. Berwick, 1994, Llewellyn Pub., St. Paul, MN pp. 168.
3. Brambleberry.com sells different distillations of peppermint oils. From their site: Peppermint Essential Oil (1st distillation): This is an herbaceous, sweet smelling peppermint. It is less brisk smelling than the 2nd distillation and contains slightly less menthol
4. From Mountain Rose Herbs’ website: “All of the oils offered by Mountain Rose Herbs are derived from the first distillation–never the second, third or fourth!”
5. From The Herbs Place: “Oil comes from the first distillations of the raw plant material.” when referring to why their oils are therapeutic grade.
I also spoke with several people in the EO field and this is what I heard (of course, given the scope of this post, following are only summaries of these discussions).
a. Most plants are distilled only once because they don’t produce enough oil for multiple distillations.
b. Distillation of Peppermint Oil. I was told that peppermint yields more oil than most other plants and that small farms sell the first distillation for a higher price and that it’s then redistilled at a higher pressure and temperature to be then sold to soap companies, etc. This later distillation will have a less herby smell.
It’s distilled again for a 3rd time for a really sweet smelling, candy cane smell.
I tried to find out the validity of these remarks and why some peppermint smells like candy, while others smells herby, but I couldn’t find any consistent answers despite hours and hours of research.
Pappas has a lot of knowledge about essential oils that I don’t have, but there are a lot of people using these terms in the industry, including those at doTERRA. So it’s clearly a very complicated matter that people have different opinions (including professional opinions) about.
UPDATE 8/16:
Since this series was published, I was given more information from other experts (a distiller and chemists) in the field stating the following about essential oils and the distillation process:
However it is possible to distill one charge of plant using different configurations. The [sic} distiller … could be, for example, performing an atmospheric pressure distillation of the plant for 10 minutes, then increasing the pressure for another period and so on. As long as there is still essential oil in the plant matter this is possible. The more volatile and nice smelling aromatics will be trapped within the first “phase” of an operation like this and subsequent processing will extract higher boiling point components; as the distillation progresses, the compounds will become less desirable, therefore cheaper.
Basically, it’s a very confusing issue as to why some peppermint oils smell ultra sweet and others do not. Perhaps something is being taken out of the oil after distilling. In the case of oils that are not pure, something may be added in. There might be some peppermint oils that are referred to as this “first distillation” that are being sold as being therapeutically superior, but that would be a subjective decision and likely most aromatherapists would want all of the components of the oil, except in the case of ylang ylang (see the following information).
Ylang Ylang is an exception to this rule. It is distilled first for a short time, yielding the most coveted “ylang ylang extra.” The distiller is shut down, the oil collected, and then it is distilled further to produce “ylang ylang 1.
(UPDATE: I just heard that most distillers don’t shut down the distiller, but merely change out the containers to keep the oil grades separate and continue distilling.) This continues to subsequently produce “ylang ylang 2” and “ylang ylang 3.” Then, all 4 varieties of ylang ylang are combined to make “ylang ylang complete,” which is preferred by some, but is priced lower than “ylang ylang extra.”
The basic thing to keep in mind through all of this is that you want to purchase your essential oils from a company that you trust to sell only quality, pure, unadulterated oils from indigenous locations.
Bias and Motivation
On his Facebook page, Pappas and his followers have talked about what my motives are:
Perhaps it will all be clear on Tuesday when she makes her great reveal….I can’t help but question the motives here.
There were also numerous statements by Pappas that his company doesn’t sell oils, but that he is merely an unbiased chemist who educates and tests oils for various companies.
He is the man who tests oils for doTERRA. That means he is inherently biased. doTERRA pays him to authenticate the quality of their oils so, I don’t see how it could be that he doesn’t have an interest in their oils being represented as being superior.
(Please note that Pappas’ relationship with doTERRA changed since the initial publishing of this post and he no longer tests their oils apparently.)
If doTERRA does well, Pappas does well. At least on some level.
Again, as for my bias, it is for finding an oils company with the best qualities that I can find, at the best price.
Nothing more. If the company that I recommend ends up having ethical or quality issues, then I won’t recommend them anymore. Plain and simple.
There are loads of money-making opportunities that I have passed up because I can’t, in good conscience, take them. I have blocked the URL’s of companies whose ads I disapprove of, all of which have led to less income for me.
One other point that I am a little confused about: Pappas has said over and over again that he is very concerned that I am putting out wrong information about the oils. I am a lover of information as well, so I appreciate that.
However, in one of his comments to me, regarding my questioning why Emily Wright and David Hill are spreading apparently incorrect information about their peppermint oil, his reply was:
What they say in their marketing is not something I concern myself with with, just as its not my concern what any other company who sends me samples for analysis does with their marketing descriptions.
I don’t understand why Pappas thinks it’s crucial to correct apparent misinformation that comes from me, but not misinformation that comes from what is likely his main employment source, and one of the biggest sources of EO information in the U.S.
Vomit and Peppermint Oil
Sorry for the sensationalist title here.
In the comments section of Part 4 of the series, Pappas states:
The thing about peppermint oil is that when its [sic] freshly distilled it contains very tiny amounts of some sulfurous components as well as some small aldehydes (namely isomers of isovaleraldehyde, also found in vomit) that, while minuscule in percentage, are such powerful components that you can smell them at ppm levels. The effects of these components can be minimized with age and evaporation because they are very volatile, but another way to get rid of these undesirables is to take the crude freshly distilled oil and then use a different distillation setup to fractionally vacuum distill away this tiny amount oil, thus giving the remaining oil a much better flavor, sweeter aroma…
Well, again, I am not an expert here, but I looked up isovaleraldehyde and vomit and there were no mentions of isovaleraldehyde being in vomit. The only connections between the two seem to be that exposure to isovaleraldehydes can lead to vomiting. I would need to see sources for this information because I couldn’t find any. In fact the main (almost all) results of my search were only Pappas stating this on my blog and on various Facebook pages.
Additionally, even if isomers of isovaleraldehyde are in vomit, that does not make them problematic. For example, water and stomach acid are in vomit and so is food. I drink water and eat food daily and I even take stomach acid to aid digestion and it basically served as a cure for rosacea for me.
I can understand some people finding the “herby” smell of 1st distill (or non re-distilled) peppermint to not be as pleasing as the “candy cane” smelling peppermint (like doTERRA’s). However, that does not mean that it induces nausea. In fact, peppermint oils that have not been redistilled, or adulterated / changed by vacuuming are regularly used for nausea and digestive upset. See my post on Peppermint and nausea.
Moderating of Comments–Censoring?
Pappas and his followers have commented numerous times that I am not approving his and other related comments.
Here is one quote from his Facebook page (which contains numerous postings which insult me):
In case anyone has been following the discussion over at The Whole New Mom blog there was a post from Adrienne directed to me that never did get answered. I actually did answer her questions but for some reason my answer was never approved to be public. Since there where people here waiting for my response I am posting it here how it should have read, in case anyone was wondering what my answer was.
and this:
Wonder why she is too afraid to let me post unmoderated and she let you right on through. This is just too weird. It feels like I am dealing with YOU KNOW WHO LOL
The “YOU KNOW WHO” that Pappas is referring to seems to be a large essential oil Direct Sales Company, or at least that’s the best I can ascertain, based on his previous comments.
and this:
Thanks Syl [meaning Sylla Shephard Hangar, mentioned below] great to see you back into things as well. She had posted here, unmoderated I might add LOL
First of all, comments on Facebook, to my knowledge, can’t be moderated once they are posted. They can only be deleted (or edited) by the admin of a page or edited or deleted by the person who posted them. So Facebook comments and blog comments are completely different things.
On my blog, I do have all comments moderated. I do that so that I can keep malware, blatant self-promoting, and foul language, etc. off of my blog.
When there are particularly intense comments, I take awhile to respond and yes, sometimes comments fall through the cracks. But I am not moderating them in order to censor people. To the contrary, I think that I approve many more negative comments than most bloggers. I enjoy the back and forth of ideas and think it’s healthy to debate. Many bloggers consider negative comments to be from trolls and so they delete and all – but I don’t do that.
But I do not think verbal abuse and rude behavior are OK.
Many bloggers moderate comments and I have only once, in 2 years of blogging, had someone email me to ask why I hadn’t approved their comment. In this case, Pappas private messaged me on Facebook several times, asking me why I wasn’t approving his. (I have heard that now you need to pay to private message non-friends on Facebook, but I haven’t verified this yet.)
However, one thing that really concerns me is his (and his followers’) accusations on his Facebook page that I am not willing to get the truth out or that I have something to hide. To the contrary, that is why I held comments in moderation–because I wanted time to get to the bottom of things as best as I could before posting their information.
Some examples of what has been said about me:
By Pappas:
Wow, I guess this is what happens when people start fearing having other people around who know more than they do. Instead of wanting to learn more themselves they turn to protection mode so they can be the star of the show. Sad really. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, even defended her a couple of times. It is upsetting though when she directed questions specifically at me and I attempted to answer but she won’t let me respond so people think I just chose to ignore her. Oh well, I have enough to keep me busy anyway. Thanks for trying.
I am not someone who fears having others with whom I disagree. I thrive on learning and have been interviewing many companies in preparation for this series.
And I will do so again in a future series on Heavy Metal Toxicity.
Here is another comment by Ann McIntire Wooledge:
She has really started a stir and I guess that’s what she planned on, but she is ultimately making herself look rather uninformed and UNeducated. The best thing she could do now is to just admit she doesn’t even know what a chemical constituent is and much less how to decide where would be the best company to buy essential oils – and stop this stupidity.
and more (this by Pappas):
That blog site is the most confusing I have seen in a while. I cannot even see a link to Part 5, how the heck did you find it?
and yet another (by Sylla Sheppard-Hanger):
scrolled thru the nonsense of her facebook page to find
one more by “Cher Aromapothecare”
Excellent reply Dr. P. (The girl could use a class). I agree, CO2 (or perhaps florasols) would be maybe a little closer representation of a plant but even that’s a stretch.
more (this by Pappas):
What really ticks me off about is that she makes some honest mistakes concerning essential oils in general that alot [sic] of people make, then I go on there and write an in depth post to clear some things up and she doesn’t let it through. I don’t know maybe I am taking this too personal. I really don’t care who she concludes is the best oil company I only wanted to clear up misconceptions and general points. It reminds me of when I posted on some YL rep sites to get them good info only to be banned because the facts were not jiving with the programming from their messiah [sic].
and finally (again by Sylla Sheppard-Hanger)
all we can do is expose her and better yet the statements….its given me plenty of fodder for my new blog series!!!
Enough, eh? I frankly am really disgusted by this behavior.
I am really disappointed at the behavior and negative comments were thrown my way throughout this and hope that they will stop.
About Me
Just to set the record straight, I don’t typically post my “credentials,” but in this case I think they are warranted.
I don’t have an advanced degree, but the learning I have done since my undergraduate degree has been extensive.
Here is my background:
1. Top of my class in high school from a top-level school.
2. Phi Beta Kappa from The University of Virginia, one of the top 15 schools in the country.
3. Echols Scholar at The University of Virginia. Admission to the Echols Scholar program is made based on “In brief, the Office of Admission looks for academic excellence, intellectual leadership, and evidence of the ability to grapple with complex topics.” (Source). Apparently, this group is representative of the top 2% of the University. Graduated with a 3.97 GPA.
4. Taught Equity Options Valuation at the Chicago Board of Trade to options traders and MBAs
5. Worked as a Manager in Employee Benefits
6. Independent Life, Health, and Disability Agent for 7+ years
7. Taught in Japan for one year and achieved near conversational fluency.
8. Research-minded mom of a child with life-threatening food allergies.
9. If I might jokingly add this, one of my local friends has called me the “investigative reporter” of health food and products.
Basically, what I am saying here is…I am not a genius, but I am not an intellectual slouch either. I don’t mean this to discredit anyone else, but I am a deep thinker and am very concerned about excellence in research and learning and in conveying accurate information to you.
One final point. A few folks on Pappas’ Facebook page have commented that I have removed links to Pappas’ Facebook page and website. At first, I left all links left by Pappas and his followers, but I ended up going back through and deleting them because they were:
1. excessive and
2. resulted in basically blatant self-promotion.
Pappas doesn’t allow advertising for oils companies on his page and I am choosing not to permit the promotion of sites that deride my character in this manner. At the beginning of this matter, Pappas seemed to be congenial, but as you can see from the comments above, that has changed.
If Pappas’ and his followers’ behavior changes and I receive an apology that is not followed by more maligning, then I will consider allowing the links.
Troubling Questions
One thing that surprised me is that I think that the concerns I posted about Young Living were more controversial, and yet, to my knowledge, I haven’t received any negative comments from any YL reps. When I signed up with doTERRA I heard from a lot of reps how negative and accusatory they felt the YL reps were.
Not in my experience.
Just to make it clear:
I am not saying that Robert Pappas doesn’t have significant qualifications by any means. He has extensive studies in the chemistry of oils and I don’t. Clearly, there must be a reason or reasons for the differing facts here, or at least there is a different way of looking at the industry.
– Is it because he is mainly a chemist and the former owner of The Perfumery?
– Is it because he worked for / was closely connected with doTERRA?
– Why does he concern himself so much about what “little old me” says when the owners of doTERRA contradict each other–and him–while speaking around the world, via meetings, videos and more, to audiences much bigger than mine?
– Why has he spilled so much electronic ink to challenge and insult me when none of the other oils companies that have been critiqued in my posts have expressed any concern?
I don’t know. I am just trying to share what I am learning so that you can make a better decision about what essential oils you want to use for your family.
The Essential Oil Company I Chose
To find out which essential oil company I ended up with at the end of this search, read this post:
– Announcing “the Best” Essential Oils Company – Part 7
you can also read the other parts of the series here:
Other Best Essential Oils Posts:
– Which Essential Oils Company is Best? – Part 1
– Best Essential Oils -What a Good Oils Company Should Have – Part 2
– Which Essential Oils Company is Best – Troubles with the Oils Industry – Part 3
– Young Living vs. doTERRA – Part 4
– Are Multi-Level Marketing Oils Worth It? – Part 5
– Announcing “the Best” Essential Oils Company – Part 7
I’m sure your head is spinning just like mine was. I really only wanted to find the company that would provide high quality oils for my family at a decent price, without a bunch of headaches and extra costs attached to it. But I ended up with quite a headache here.
A Great Essential Oils Book for Your Library
One thing that really interests me is making my own essential oils blends.
This book has loads of essential oils blends in it as well as information about sourcing your own medicinal herbs. Fascinating!
The Essential Oils Book: Creating Personal Blends for Mind & Body
Thanks for hanging in there with me.
I’d love to hear your thoughts (but I reserve the right to moderate comments :-)).
The information here is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a medical professional before changing your diet, exercise program, or before trying any natural remedies.
The following is from a reader who is having trouble leaving a comment, so she emailed me instead. My blog host is working on new security measures for my blog and there appears to be a glitch. Sorry about that!
Hi Adrienne,
I tried to post a comment and was told I need to log-in. I just want to do a quick note. I know you are reputable, and I have always found good information on your site. What I was told years ago by a facilitator for a special needs mom’s group is this: Work to know more than the doctors do because you have a vested interest in your child’s health and well-being. Well, through the years I have not always been respected by the very people who were supposed to be helping me because I was not a professional in the field. But, I was a professional in the field of knowing and helping my daughter and and understood what works for her and our family. It does not matter if you attended all of the prestigious schools in the nation, (but you are truly gifted and talented) but you have a motivated, unbiased interest in your health and your family’s health. You will go the extra mile to help your family, and making the dollar will not motivate your decision. A person who is truly interested in informing without a personal interest in himself will correctly privately, tactfully, and compassionately. They were using intimidation techniques and hoping to ruin your reputation and following. He/she is threatened by an outsider. I am so sorry for the ugliness and name smearing they are trying to cause on a public forum.
I too asked questions of a rep of doTerra a while back because I have been working with alternative medicine for a while, and he honestly could not answer my questions. It was how can their be such a difference in the herb remedies/tinctures and the a completely different herb EO suggested for the remedy for the same ailment? He sent me to someone else and they could not explain why? Just the same rigamarole. I still will use EO for some things, but stick to tinctures when I know the remedy works and has for us for years.
I thank you for the hard work and research you have done and made public for us all. Those who truly follow you will know this is an attempt of defamation of character and won’t be swayed. It doesn’t change the feelings that go along with the attacks you’ve experienced.
Blessings,
Joanne
Thanks, Joanne. I so appreciate all of the encouraging emails. I am OK if reps can’t answer questions, but they need to know their limitations. Are you saying that they recommended different EOs than what a normal tincture recommendation would be?
I haven’t used tinctures. I would love to know your thoughts on why they are preferable if you do, in fact, think that they are. I will reply to your email so you get this :).
Hi Adrienne,
Let me qualify that I don’t know everything about herbs, tinctures, and EO. I do know what works for my family. I also have some philosophies that I adhere to first. I change the diet first, I use food as healing when possible, ie drinking 100% cranberry juice to prevent bladder infections. I had been prone for a while to bladder infections, which I realize had to have been partially due to stress. I also as part of the whole regime manage my stress and the manner in which I think and respond to situations.
The the next step is using herbs or tinctures. I can off the top of my head list some things that I know work for me. Tinctures quickly enter the bloodstream when administered under the tongue. They are gentle, and I am not as concerned with getting too much. I have used motherwort tinctures under the tongue when I have hot flashes and also chaste tree berry for regulation of periods. Now, with that said, I also know people who can’t take chaste tree berry, it causes more symptoms for them. I also though found a change in diet helped me too.
Then I use EO. Such as for headaches, I have found feverfew just does not cut it for me, but rubbing lavender oil on my temples depending on the headache is gone in no time. But, there are times when I reach for the over the counter medication when it is very intense.
With all of that said, I find it preferable in certain situations. I have talked to people who I trust, and I have books that I have referred to again and again which work for us. I know herbs/tinctures in many cases cross over for many different uses. I use local herbs or buy salves that use local herbs because they are effective for what I am using it for and it is a resource readily available. Such as plantain for drawing out dirt, or for relieving an itch. We don’t fertilize, or herbicide or pesticide our lawn and it is available for free, and many would consider it a weed, but we use it for healing. Jewel weed is also good for itching and grows where I am.
I am still out on the jury concerning using herbs only where they are first found because for instance, California can grow very good grapes with the same conditions as France and Spain using the same grapes for excellent quality, the same applies to olives and olive oil.
What concerned me is me not recognizing the herbs made into EO as one of the sources for healing that I am familiar using and also listed in the reference publications I have used for years. The reference book using EO did list sources and studies for their recommendations. But, I not being an expert was not familiar with what they were recommending, and also not convinced this would be in the best interest for me to switch over to EO when I had done my own research and the EO herbs were not the same as the reference publications. To be fair, it was a while ago and can’t remember more than a couple of specifics. One of them was for immunity using frankincense using EO, when echinacea, goldenseal, and ginseng worked well for my family in tincture form. I had always heard that Tea Tree Oil should not be ingested and now Tea Tree Oil can be ingested as EO. It is a possibility in the purity, but I am still wary. I truthfully can’t remember for women’s issues, but recalled it being different.
I also use silver gel and suspended silver, because it works for my family.
I didn’t intend for the e-mail to be this long, but I hope you understand better which angle I am coming from. I know what works for my family and for me.
Blessings,
Joanne
Hi Joanne – my I am finding all these old comments I haven’t replied to – sorry!!!
Thanks for sharing. I don’t know if you are using EOs now or not, but I have a new guide that just came out that might interest you: https://wholenewmom.com/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-essential-oils-before-you-buy/
Take good care!
I used to be a YL rep but changed to doTerra because a rep convinced me they were better. It was an easy sell because I never liked Gary Young and I was happy to say goodbye to him. Since joining doTerra I have seen nothing but negativity coming from both sides and I am sick of it. I am done with these two MLM companies and will be promoting the best non-MLM oil company. I know many others feel the same way.
Thanks, Gayle, for taking the time to comment. I think it’s bad as well.
Adrienne,
Like I said on my page 5 comments post, being online sure does bring out the bullies that would never be so nasty to your face. Makes me think somewhere in a very elderly woman’s basement, sits a fat, ugly man-child typing away on his computer as he grins with delight at how “big and bad” he is in the online world of saying whatever he wants without consequence.
If I were in upper management at Do Terra, there’d be a few less employees at that company. I work too hard for my money to give it to people that act so horrible! Yikes!! You have many followers and I’m sure the line to buy their products is short right about now. You are obviously a class act and I am appreciative that I did not have to abandon this blog because it became a playground “you’re a poophead! No, YOUR a poophead!” game of stupidity. I thought I left that behind in 2nd grade, but I guess you never outgrow that kind of behavior online.
Please make sure when you call Do Terra, you mention that at least one other of your followers will never buy their products because they have unprofessional people in positions where being professional is kinda sorta important. Especially when it’s obvious there are plenty of other options out there. Thanks for making my EO list of possible providers one name shorter! Keep up the great work!!!
It is so unfortunate that this has turned into something so negative. Unfortunately some people seem to flourish on negativity and drama. I am a firm believer that we can learn from each other, however why would you want to listen to anyone so belittling? Debate is always great, but bullying is not! I just hope that everyone can move on from this and get back to what is important here. I m very much interested and starting to use essential oils as are many of your readers I am sure. I can only hope you can put this behind you and continue with your research : ) Many blessing you way!
Thanks, Chrystal. I am saddened as well, but we all need to deal with junk along the way. And more unfortunate is that we are all the cause of muck in others’ lives. I really really struggled with whether to post this all or not, but I felt they were being very public and that I needed to address it in a public forum as well. Thanks for the support.
I am also in shock!!! Adrienne, I started reading your blogs, etc about 2 months ago, and I truly love you!!!!!!!!! I am an optometrist, and I truly want you to know there are so many of us out here who SUPPORT YOU and LOVE your daily articles!!!!!!!!!!! Keep up the good work, as we truly appreciate your advice and discernment when it comes to giving our bodies the natural and wholistic care they need to survive in this very toxic world!! Hang in there girl!!!!!
Thank you so much, Annette. I appreciate your comment now and the ones in the past. I am doing the best I can and look forward to sharing more…hopefully Tuesday, I am thinking. The owner of the co that I will be recommending is out of town ’til Monday and I want him to be available for questions, etc. So….maybe cupcakes or something of that nature between now and then:).
Hi, Adrienne – I’m a doTERRA rep. I signed up to learn about the oils and try some about a year ago. From the beginning, I was disturbed by the lack of information or difficulty in obtaining information on their website regarding the oils. Like country of origin, for instance.
When I went into the doTerra Google group and followed different discussions, any time someone was even remotely questioning about some aspect of the oils or products, the moderator was so defensive. This seems to be a hallmark of the company.
While I understand the need to be positive when you’re in a position of leadership or influence, not everyone’s questions are meant to bring down the whole company and may in fact be helpful if investigated further. I find that sort of attitude just muddies the waters and makes one suspicious.
Off topic just a tad, do you or anyone reading this, know exactly if Dr. Hill is a medical doctor? I googled him and honestly can’t find a CV on him. On doTERRA’s site it says DC next to his name which I believe means he’s a chiropractor? But then it says he was a physician in family practice for 10 years. That makes it sound like he’s an MD.
This sort of thing makes me feel like what it should say is David Hill, CSOS (Chief Snake Oil Salesman). Unfair perhaps, but that’s how it makes me feel. Just say what his credentials are.
So, while I don’t have a dog in this fight, I just wanted to let you know that my experience mirrors yours. I wish you hadn’t felt compelled to fight back with them specifically and give them more exposure, but I understand that you needed to do what you needed to do.
It’s too bad because I find the doTERRA oils to be very helpful, although I don’t know another company’s oils wouldn’t be. Looking forward to hearing your conclusions on the matter. Thanks for what you’re doing.
Thanks for sharing.
I honestly feel badly that I didn’t look at Dr. Hill’s qualifications more closely. This is where things get muddled for me. I feel that folks are throwing around their degrees with the weight of a medical doctor and it just shouldn’t be so. Well, truthfully, so many medical doctors don’t deserve a ton of respect either, in my opinion. It doesn’t matter what degree you have before your name. It matters what you do and what you say.
Case in point….one could graduate at the bottom of the class of the lowest level medical school, and still have the title of “doctor”. But another person could be much more qualified to deal with medical issues and be called a “nurse” or in fact, have no title at all. I have been blessed by solid medical and alternative personnel, and my family and I have suffered greatly due to poor care as well.
From what I can tell, Dr. Hill is a chiropractor and there is some debate as to whether or not he was practicing without a license in Utah when he was working with Gary Young of Young Living. There was a huge lawsuit over a death in Young’s clinic and Hill was named as a defendant. Now, just because someone is named in a lawsuit doesn’t mean that they did anything wrong. I have seen lawsuits filed by folks with absolutely no solid grounding and I pity those on the other side having to deal with such nonsense.
I think what you read about Hill is that he was in charge of a clinic (like these words from doTERRA’s site: “As a licensed practitioner of Chiropractic Medicine and the former administrator of a large health clinic,”) which a DC could, in fact be. Does that bear up with what you read? Perhaps you could copy the text here that you are referring to.
As for his CV, I have no idea. I have Pappas’ CV in my comment moderation screen (being moderated because it would take me awhile to respond to it and I don’t feel I need to post it at this time–I addressed my concerns with being flooded with comments and links promoting Pappas and any blogger worth his or her salt does not allow the blog to be taken over by folks who are just trying to steer traffic to their own sites), but nothing about Hill.
I too wasn’t pleased with the aspect of the Google group that you mention. Some of the information was super helpful, but negative comments need to be dealt with or the whole thing takes on the feel of a cult, or at least a group based on misinformation.
That is what I am being accused of by Pappas and his Facebook followers (that is what I meant by “followers”, but in truth they do follow his teachings about oils as well, at least it seems pretty clear that they do)–not dealing with negative info by taking awhile to moderate comments. In truth, I think I am very fair about presenting all sides of issues and correcting myself when I find out I am wrong about something.
Look forward to hearing more from you!
You might want to research where ” Dr. ” Gary Youngs credentials came from as well. Last I heard, the Bernadean University of which declared Gary Young an MD was a diploma mill. This university isn’t even accredited by the AMA.
I also find the implication funny that those who follow any person’s teachings is considered a cult. I’m going to add that everyone reading Adrienne’s blog, and accepting her “teachings” and opinions might also be accused of being in a cult as well.
Susie, I am concerned about anyone having an MD from a “diploma mill” have their degree taken too seriously. However, accrediting is for sure desired but there are some folks w/ degrees from non accredited institutions that have good knowledge to share.
Regarding your statement about my blog possibly being considered a cult, the definition of a cult by Merriam Webster is “A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.” I actually understand some people talking about YL as having a cultish feel. A lot of EO companies make spiritual-type claims about their products and encourage devotion to their product b/c of what they promise will happen spiritually if you use their products. Of course, this is a little different than folks following a strictly religious leader, but you can see how the lines get blurred in this instance.
As for my blog, I am not, by any means, encouraging religious veneration or devotion towards myself, my blog, or any product that I recommend. So I don’t see how the analogy can be extended to me or my blog. And for the record—if anyone is considering anything of the sort, I am a totally flawed person. So don’t do it :).
So sorry to hear you’re being attacked by a bully – I’ve never understood how someone could feel so small inside they need to spread nastiness to feel better. I understand why you felt a need to write this post but I hope now you’ll be able to just stop giving him/them any of your energy. It’s your blog and there’s no reason you need to approve anymore of his comments (imo)
I like to do my own research before I try something new that’s health related – I rarely consider a blog post “research” because who knows where most bloggers are getting their information. But I’ve always liked how thought out and informed your posts are.
I rarely post comments so I’m not very eloquent – just wanted to offer another voice of support.
Hi Tanya – I sure hope you comment more because your words were more than fine. I have just approved one more of the comments of Pappas’ Facebook page followers and there is one more of Pappas’ here so I am going to have to think this over.
I don’t wish to censor anyone, but I have to guard my time and be careful that this all not take over my entire life. I have to get on to those Chocolate Chip Cheesecake-Filled Chocolate Cupcakes at some point, right :-)?
Wow. Just… WOW! I applaud you for taking the high road!
I know when I first looked into THAT company based on the mention on some of the blogs I read, I felt things were a bit “too good to be true,” and just too stinking expensive. I’m glad I never pursued further.
I appreciate you taking the time to research and risk, in order for the rest of us to have enough information to draw our own conclusions.
God bless!
Jenni
Thanks, Jenni. Well, I really appreciate the outpouring of support. I really wanted to support doTERRA as well, but now I just don’t think I can. I am open to changing my mind, but most likely not. I look forward to sharing more and seeing what you all think.
Thanks for your hard work and the time you put in to help educate the rest of us.
You are welcome, Georgia. It has turned into a lot more time than I had imagined, but–oh well. Guess that’s the way life goes sometimes.
Thanks, Adrienne! You are doing a great job informing us! Keep up the great work!
Thank you, as well, Jennifer!
Thank you for all the work you’ve put into this. I signed up with YL but want it for health and not wealth. I wish the prices weren’t so high. I am sad to read what the chemist and others wrote about you. Their actions do not speak well about their character. I am anxious to read your recommendation. Thank you again for all your research!
Thanks, Donna. I personally tried hard to recruit both for YL and doTERRA, at different times, because I thought I had found something really great that I wanted to share with others. It wasn’t that I thought I’d be rich doing it, but it is fine to get rewarded for advertising and doing it well. Anyway, I do hope that you all like the company I have selected and I think as we go on we’ll have the chance to learn more about oils and such. :).
Hi Adrienne!
I think your research on essential oils is great! I would suggest that you ignore any of the negative comments and naysayers as they will just consume your energy. You have a right to blog about what you choose and you do it in an honest and straightforward way. So, I would not even give anymore thought to those who are saying rude things. You have ruffled some feathers and that is okay! It gets everyone to think! 🙂
Jennifer
Thanks, Jennifer. I think you are right. I am so thankful that I was led to the information that I found and was able to share it in what I thought was a pretty cohesive manner. I am sorry that some people had to see this issue that is unpleasant but I felt it was the only right way to stop it. :-).
I apologize for saying your nonsense on FB I had to scroll. Ii have since looked more closely and you have a LOT of information on your page and site, and it is not nonsense. Your essential oil information however is slightly skewed, thus our attempt at correcting you. I dont sell oils, I use them in my practice, and educate people on essential oils and aromatherapy via courses and books and have done so for over 40 years. It appals me to hear some of the mis-information you posted concerning the distillations, grades and such. these things just dont exist and are words from the MLMs. I am not a “follower” of anyone, we posted on EOU because you moderated our comments and we wondered what was up. I agree with Rob that your research left out some important sources of info, and just checking oil companies info leaves a lot to be desired. I too wish you best of luck, and if I can be of any help in the future please dont hesitate to ask.
Sylla, I appreciate your apology. However, perhaps you see my EO information as skewed, but I am just pointing out what I have learned fron people in the industry. Can you please point to something specific that I have said that you think are skewed? (By the way, you say “our attempt”, by the way, as if you are a cohesive force. You can see why this felt like a group attack to me. Because it was.)
The people whom I talked with and the sources that I have cited are not “fly by night” organizations. They have been in the oils industry for a long time and care sincerely about it.
What exactly are you saying “doesn’t exist”? I assure you that these words are not coming from the MLMs. I have carefully cited my sources, so I need to you to come back with specific information about what you are taking issue with.
That being said, I have so many other things to deal with, so I can only spend so much time going back and forth.
You are a “follower” of EOU on Facebook. That is the term for someone who likes an organization or corporate page on Facebook. That is all I meant by it and that is where I got the quotations from.
I addressed the moderation issue and “wondering what was up” is different than attacking someone’s character.
At this point, the help you can give (not promising how quickly I will moderate, however) is to be specific about what in my last posting you take issue with and why. Thank you again for the apology, but you did say more than just the “nonsense” part. The “fodder for blog post” and “expose her” comment was particularly heinous in my opinion.
I am still just surprised at how this turned out, but perhaps it is a lesson to all of us to watch what we say and how we say it. Thanks and if you care to respond again, I welcome it.
Adrienne did you get my reply to this, i couldnt post on your blog so i replied to the email notifying i had reply from you!! if you didnt get then i will try once more to post here but its long, let me know if you didnt get that. it is just every time it wants me to log in or something and it says my posts are waiting moderation so i figured wasnt much use to keep posting, I dont mind if you moderate.
Adrienne, you know I have followed this particular blog subject from the very beginning and I so appreciate the research you have put into finding the best oil at the best price. I’m still looking for that myself, so I’m grateful you are willing to share your findings with us.
It’s really sad that others can’t just appreciate your efforts and stop attacking you when your opinion (which I believe you are entitled to equally as much as they are to their own opinions…) doesn’t jive with theirs.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you for all your hard work. <3
You are so welcome. I am thinking we are all going to learn a lot from this…not just about oils. Thanks and I look forward to sharing this coming week.
Following you on bloglovin’
I am so sorry that you are going through this. Did you ever believe this would happen. I don’t know you but you have been putting a lot of time and work into this project. There is good info here. Thank you so much for it. Keep up the good and honest work. Blessings.
We may have met by chance…but we become friends by choice.
https://simpleesue.com/soup-kitchen-recipes-italian-wedding-soup
I expected some upset, but not this kind of derision. But I understand it. A lot of Pappas’ followers on his FB page have signed up with doTERRA and they either feel they need to make money with doTERRA or they just can’t bear thinking that something else might be better. Thank you so much!
Adrienne – I’m sorry that they are giving you such a hard time. That’s ridiculous. I’m glad you are sticking with it. I just wanted to say that I have many many books written by very reputable professional aromatherapists and not one of them recommend doTerra or YL. That should mean something! Also every book that I have read which talks about how to look for reputable companies and find high quality oils warns to make sure that you are only buying the first distillation. So my conclusion is that any person who states that there is no such thing as first, second, third, etc distillations either is dumb and doesn’t know what they are talking about or thinks they are talking to someone who is dumb and doesn’t know what they are talking about. Thank you for all your hard work. You have many readers who appreciate it. Don’t let the “haters” get you down!
Wow – thanks for sharing that. Would you mind sharing with me either here, or in an email, the books that you have found to be the most valuable? I am looking to expand my library. Right now all I have are the YL book and the doTERRA book and one other that I mentioned on my blog already. I’ve found one that I would like to buy but I would love a recommendation. Thanks in advance. I am at wholenewmom at gmail dot com if you prefer email :-).
here are some good links for unbiased aromatherapy/essential oil info:
(Links deleted by Whole New Mom due to it not working anymore.)
and for books, the simple Aromatherapy for Dummies book has lots of correct info and is easy to read. Of course for the serious practitioners, there is the Aromatherapy Practitioner Reference manual I put out a few years ago which covers 350 oils.
Yes, Could you share some of those books, Amanda!??? Really appreciate your comment! Thx!! 🙂
I have a few great books on this topic. Here is a review I wrote for one of them, which includes the names and authors of the others:
“I first checked out the hardback version of this book, Aromatherapy Through the Seasons: Restorative Recipes and Sensory Suggestions by Paula M. Bousquet and Judith Fitzsimmons, from our local library. I found it by browsing the stacks in the call number for aromatherapy. It caught my eye with the word “seasons.” I fell head over heels in love! I renewed it as many times as possible while my daughter and I had fun mixing up various recipes from the book. Her favorite is “Sweet Dreams,” which she used every night for a month this past summer.
I have three other Aromatherapy books (all different authors). My first is a general overview with nice pictures and charts (Practical Aromatherapy by Penny Rich) and includes information on different ways to apply EOs. My second purchase was an A-Z reference manual (Aromatherapy: An A-Z by Patricia Davis), which focuses on using EOs in massage therapy and describes a lot of EOs. My third is specific to children (Aromatherapy for the Healthy Child by Valerie Worwood). I like all three of these books for different reasons and I refer to them often.
What I like so much about this book [Aromatherapy Through the Seasons] is that it has a completely different tone and approach from my other books. It is a practical usage book… akin to a cookbook! I like simple recipes for therapeutic purposes and this book delivers in a unique and FUN way.”
I also have Healing Home Spa by Valerie Cooksley, which I enjoy a lot, as well!
Thanks so much for all of the hard work that you are doing. Sorry you have to deal with all of this other stuff. Praying for you.
God bless.
Prayers are much appreciated. 🙂 Blessings to you as well.
hugs!
Received gladly.
Can’t wait to hear your favorite! I’ve been looking into different oils as well- not quite as in depth as you, but…- so I’m excited to hear if we have come to the same conclusion! Thank you for all your hard work and research. I greatly appreciate it 🙂
Thank you so much.
Feel free to email me w/ your conclusion….or at least tell me after I share :).
I follow your blog ( and love it!) and I normally don’t comment, but I just wanted to thank you for all your work and research, and encourage you that you are making a difference- looking forward to your conclusion….keep up the great work!
Thank you, Tara. Again, so nice to hear from so many of you!