Young Living vs doTERRA and Why I Left Both
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I didn’t really know what to think about essential oils at first.
A friend recommended a blend called Thieves when I was dealing with a bad sinus infection—I share that story in more detail here—and I was surprised enough by the results that I signed up with Young Living.
I was already aware of some concerning things about the company’s history—but I still wanted to give the oils a fair chance and see for myself how they performed.
That’s what led me to start digging deeper into essential oils in general and looking to find a quality company to buy our oils from.
At that time, a doTERRA rep reached out to me—because she could tell I really cared about quality. She believed I’d find the transparency, quality, and support I was looking for with doTERRA.
I decided to check them out and join their company as well and was optimistic at first, but when we started digging into specific questions—especially about their peppermint oil sourcing (see below for more about that)—the answers still weren’t clear.
So now I couldn't get clear answers from the two biggest names in the industry. At that point, I decided I wasn’t comfortable continuing with either company.
What I found wasn’t just disappointing—it raised serious concerns about how both companies present their products.
Most comparisons between Young Living and doTERRA don’t actually answer the real questions.
That’s because many of them are written by representatives of one company or the other.
So instead of just repeating the usual talking points, I started looking at both companies from a different angle:
- What are they actually transparent about?
- Where do things not quite add up?
- And what should you really be paying attention to as a consumer?
Young Living vs doTERRA: Which Is Better?
If you’re just looking for a quick answer:
- Best for transparency: doTERRA (shares GC/MS testing reports)
- Best for variety: Young Living (larger product range)
- Biggest concerns: Both (sourcing, marketing, and MLM structure)
- My conclusion: I don’t recommend either for most people—and I’ll explain why below.
Note: I’m sharing what I can here, but not everything—because some companies are quick to pursue legal action. I encourage you to do your own research as well.
Here’s a quick side-by-side comparison before we break down what actually matters.
| Feature | Young Living | doTERRA |
|---|---|---|
| Oil variety | Larger (~270+) | Smaller (~140+) |
| Transparency | Lower | Higher (GC/MS reports) |
| Sourcing approach | More US-based | Indigenous sourcing focus |
| Ethical concerns | Documented issues | Documented issues |
| MLM model | Yes | Yes |
Why Most Young Living vs doTERRA Reviews Are Misleading
Most of the reviews out there that compare Young Living to doTERRA are written by representatives of one of those two companies. The main goal of their posts, therefore, is to convince you to join their “team” and sell the oils under them.
Just because someone is recommending something that they benefit from doesn't mean that the recommendation is inaccurate, but in the case of an MLM, it's more of a red flag.
There's not just affiliate bias going on, but it's more than that because once you sign up, you're tied to that person for life unless you leave the company for a long time (typically 6-12 months).
In addition, the comparisons in those posts are pretty superficial and are not digging deep into some things behind the marketing. That being said, there are some aspects to each company that make them stand out against the other.
Ways Young Living Excels
While doTERRA and Young Living share a lot of similarities, there are some ways that Young Living stands out.
Variety
Young Living has a lot of oils to choose from. They sell at least 270 singles and blends, while doTERRA carries approximately 140.
So basically, if you want to address something with essential oils, Young Living likely has what you want.
Longevity
Young Living has been around for a long time, and they are often credited with having a lot to do with the popularity of essential oils today. That doesn't mean their oils are better than other companies' oils, but I like to give credit where credit is due.
The following concerns are based on publicly available information and my own evaluation of that information.
Problems With Young Living
Reputation and Ethics
Again, Young Living was a big part of making essential oils mainstream, which is something to be applauded.
However, there are some pretty not-so-savory things that have been written about D. Gary Young. Of course, the internet isn't always reliable, but I still think these things might be worth paying attention to.
Gary Young has been accused of lying about healing from the oils and making misleading statements related to the sourcing of Frankincense oils.
OSHA Violations
OSHA is the Occupational Health and Safety Administration, a government agency in the US that aims to ensure safe working conditions.
While looking into both companies, I found out that Young Living has 20 OSHA violations, with 10 being called “serious.” That sounds really bad, but Young Living has been around for a long time, so they've had more time for violations to occur, and all of the violations appear to be about the same incident.
Of course, OSHA violations don't mean that a company is bad, and some people consider some of the OSHA violations to be ridiculously stringent, but in this case, the lid of a distilling vessel blew off, killing the man who was working right by it.
If Young Living cleaned up its procedures correctly, then it's possible that their new procedures are better. Either way, it's still worth noting.
When I first published this post, I didn't find other companies having OSHA violations. Of course, I didn't look into every single oil company, However, but doTERRA now has a violation that you can read about below.
Non-Indigenous Plants
A good number of Young Living's farms are located in the U.S. I think that's fine for a company being more “in control” of their product but not great if you follow conventional wisdom that plants grow best (and have the best therapeutic qualities) when they are grown in their indigenous locations (where they are supposed to grow naturally).
If you read through the comments of Best Essential Oils Parts 2 & 3, you'll see that Young Living reps tout the fact that YL farms are in the U.S. as being an advantage, due to Young Living having control over the whole growing process.
Perhaps, but other companies like doTERRA and others source their oils from wherever the plants grow naturally for higher quality.
Misleading Effectiveness Claim
In Young Living's enrollment package, there was a Thieves Oil brochure referenced in this study. It was cited to address the superior therapeutic value of the oil blend.
I was curious to see the exact results, so I looked them up. What I found, however, was that the study was done on generic eucalyptus oil rather than on the Young Living Thieves oil itself.
I reached out to Young Living's headquarters and got this response:
Thank you for your email. Unfortunately we cannot comment on any
research articles or provide this information as it would be in direct
violation of FDA regulations. You may want to contact Life Science
Publishers at 1-800-336-6308 or www.lifesciencepublishers.com and Sound
Concepts at 1-888-285-6317, 801-225-9520 or
www.essentialproductinfo {dot} com. These companies both carry several
items or research that contain useful information concerning essential
oils and supplements and may be able to assist you further.
While in a sense, the “proven to work” claim was accurate, their blend wasn't tested. In my mind, this comes across as misleading marketing.
Possible Chemical Smell
When evaluating oils from different companies, we did a “smell challenge” with my not-so-specially-trained Smell Testing Panel (a.k.a. my family).
Of course this wasn't an official spectrometry test, and none of us is a certified aromatherapist, but we noticed that Young Living seemed to have a chemical (synthetic) overtone.
Does that mean there were synthetics added? No, but we still didn't care for it.
Unknown Country of Origin
As of the 2018 update of this post, many or all of the oils from Young Living do not have a country of origin indicated on the site.
Illegal Sourcing of Oils
In 2017, Young Living was caught illegally sourcing rosewood and spikenard oils between 2014 and 2016.
However, this whole topic is very confusing because Young Living turned themselves in, and there are more details to consider.
Misleading Seed to Seal Claim
Many Young Living reps claim that their products are superior due to the company's Seed to Seal practices. However, as you can see from the illegal sourcing of oils above and the information below about sourcing from the same places that doTERRA does, this claim does not appear to be accurate.
Problematic Spiritual Associations
In 2022, Young Living sent out the book My Word Made Flesh to many high-ranking Young Living distributors. The book was co-written by Robert Tennyson Stevens, who runs a company called Mastery Systems, and Vonn Harting, a Young Living Royal Crown Diamond. Mary Young (Gary Young's wife) wrote the forward.
The book had a lot of questionable content, including a passage that encouraged people to basically do a “seance with oils” in which they would repeat,
I am the resurrection and the life of my lineage.
Of course, in the Bible, Jesus calls himself “the way, the truth, and the life” and says “no one comes to the Father except through me,” which made this book problematic for many, including me. Basically, this quote appears to be telling people to take the place of Jesus.
Here are some more problematic quotes from the book (source):
Jesus taught the use of oils to the disciples, not the masses.
I am sovereign in my god self.
I am the brilliant mind of my creator.
You can see The Word Made Flesh here for now so you can see a bit more about what caused all the hubbub. And gee, you can purchase it for $255 if you'd like. Wow.
Ways doTERRA Excels
Education and Support Network
While both companies have a lot of educational resources, it seemed to me that the support network available with doTERRA was stronger.
Testing Transparency
doTERRA, unlike Young Living, shares GC/MS test results on its website. Yes, essential oil testing can be falsified, but it's a more transparent situation than Young Living has.
Indigenous Plants
doTERRA claims that all of their oils are from plants grown in indigenous areas. I haven't looked into this completely, but if it's the case, their oils should be of higher quality than Young Living's.
Problems With doTERRA
Following are concerns that showed up about doTERRA years ago, but also a few that are more recent, with one of them being quite disconcerting.
OSHA Violation
While other sites claim that doTERRA has no OSHA violations, as of July 2024, that simply isn't true any longer. Note that after writing this section of this post, I see that doTERRA's name isn't on this page, but the internet search information associated with this page indicates that it is connected with doTERRA.
Workers in Vulnerable Situations
In 2023, an investigation into poor employment practices, including substandard pay and unsafe working conditions, by a doTERRA supplier was launched. During the investigation, workers were told to “change their stories ‘or face the consequences'.”
doTERRA claims on its website that every oil it sells is “responsibly and sustainably sourced” and that it's their “top priority to protect the environment during the production process and provide fair treatment of all harvesters and growers.” However, in this case, doTERRA didn't protect the women involved, and they were left in fear for their safety. To be fair, Emily White was quoted as being distraught about this situation, but there are no reports of this being resolved in a positive way.
Odd Marketing Claim About Oil Scents
One thing I really like about doTERRA is their educational resources, and also, their oils smell great.
But their great smell is part of what concerns me.
A lot of doTERRA reps (and corporate employees as well) say something like, “You'll know it works by its smell.”
A quote from doTERRA's website: “A 100% pure therapeutic-grade essential oil should have a balanced, broad fragrance profile and should smell crystal clean.” I'm not sure about you, but I don't know what “crystal clean” means.
And is “crystal clean” what you want your oils to smell like? I'm not so sure about that.
Organoleptic testing is something that many essential oil companies and experts do, but it's harder for the typical consumer to do. And it's quite possible that a consumer will be aiming for something more pleasing, rather than what an oil actually should smell like.
No Definitive Answer About Peppermint Oil Distillation
Essential oils are distilled by putting plant parts and water in a distiller and, under low pressure and low temperature, removing the oils from the plant.
The oils travel down a tube and into a vat. The oil collects on top of the water and is then removed.
The most coveted and most expensive (and thought to be the most therapeutic) oil is that which is collected during the first part of the distillation period, which is called “first distilled.”
This “first distillation” apparently only applies to ylang ylang oil, but possibly to peppermint oil as well.
doTERRA's peppermint smells good enough to eat, as in “candy cane” good. So yummy, in fact, that if you have kiddos in the house, you'd best keep it out of arm's reach.
But is that a good thing?
Most peppermint essential oils smell like the peppermint you find growing out in nature, which is herby and not like candy canes.
Candy cane-smelling peppermint is apparently, according to several sources, possibly from a redistill. Either that or some components are taken out (meaning these are adulterated oils) to give the oil a clean pepperminty candy smell.
Is doTERRA's Peppermint a Complete Distillation?
This is the email response I got from doTERRA stating that their peppermint oil is a complete distillation.
You can let her know that our Peppermint uses complete
distillation. There is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and complete and we use complete.
If the first distillation of peppermint oil is the most valuable (and there is really a first and later distillation of peppermint), then their peppermint oil might not be top quality.
If there is truly no such thing as more than one distillation of peppermint, as many say, then why is doTERRA stating that there is a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and complete distillation of peppermint?
In one video, one of the founders of doTERRA stated that their peppermint smelled amazing because it was from Washington. However, many other peppermint oils are sourced from Washington as well, so doTERRA's isn't special for that reason.
Then later, a representative told me that the doTERRA headquarters said that the peppermint smell was different because their oil is distilled only from the leaves and the flowers.
The most disconcerting part of this is that I couldn't get information from doTERRA themselves about WHY their peppermint smelled the way that it did.
Inferior Quality Ylang Ylang Oil
doTERRA prides itself on having high-quality standards and top-quality oils. Their ylang ylang, however, is a complete distillation. Some may say that this is a matter of preference, but in the essential oils industry, the first distillation of ylang ylang is absolutely more valued and therefore a higher-priced oil.
To their credit, doTERRA is transparent and does call their ylang ylang a complete distillation on their website.
Ylang ylang first distillation (which is referred to as “extra”) is typically considered to be the quality of oil that is most sought after and is of the highest therapeutic quality.
Ingredient Labeling Problems
Thanks to Kitchen Stewardship, I found out that doTERRA at one point didn't disclose all of the oils in their bug-repellent blend. At the time she wrote that post, the label stated that it was a “proprietary blend.” No thanks. Not including ingredients on the label of something that you are going to be eating or putting on your skin is a big problem.
Thankfully, doTERRA now discloses the ingredients of their Terra Shield blend; however, at the time that I initially wrote this post, that wasn't the case.
Lower Quality Frankincense Oil
I often get questions about doTERRA's pricing for their frankincense oil as to how it compares to other brands, with people citing that doTERRA's appears to be less expensive.
The reason for this has to do with the composition of doTERRA's frankincense oil. Most companies sell either just one variety of frankincense oil or several varieties, but doTERRA's frankincense is, at least as of August 2016, a blend of different varieties.
Following are the types of frankincense in their blend:
– carterii (typically the least expensive)
– serrata
– frereana
Sacred Frankincense is typically one of, if not the most expensive, varieties of Frankincense oil, so if you compare doTERRA's Frankincense to another company's Sacred, doTERRA's will likely come out to be cheaper.
Lack of Country of Origin Transparency
As of the 2018 update of this post, all or many of the oils from doTERRA did not have a country of origin indicated on the site. This is interesting, especially since the company and/or its reps repeatedly say that they can't get organic certification due to it being hard to get it in the countries where their oils are sourced.
I heard from a reader that there is a source map for doTERRA oils, but I couldn't find it. I did, however, find one page that shows sourcing for spikenard and petitgrain.
The map shows that their petitgrain Oil is sourced from Paraguay. Other companies have organic petitgrain from Paraguay, so their claim about organic oils being too hard to source just doesn't seem to make sense.
Undesirable or Unknown Ingredients in Other Products
Some of doTERRA's other products have ingredients I don't love.
For example, doTERRA's On Guard toothpaste used to contain titanium dioxide, a metal that I initially thought I should avoid due to the possibility of heavy metal toxicity. I'm not that worried about that now, but it's an unnecessary ingredient, so if it's at all in question, why use it? Thankfully, that ingredient is gone now. To be fair, it seems that doTERRA has cleaned up a lot of their personal care line.
However, initially, when I wrote this post, they had PEG 100 in their Deep Blue Cream. Now, there's no complete ingredient list on their site, so I don't know what is in there.
They also used to have carrageenan (which, depending on the form, is thought to cause inflammation) in their capsules. Right now, when searching “carrageenan” on their site, some capsules come up in the search results, but I can't see why that is because the ingredient list doesn't seem to be complete. I think it's fair to assume that they still contain it.
Misleading Portrayal of Earning Possibilities
At some point, direct sales companies have to produce an income disclosure statement so that those interested in selling with the company can have a realistic idea of how much money they can (or, in this case, likely won't) make.
doTERRA's top income disclosure chart here seems to show that there are some great opportunities with doTERRA, but it is misleading. It shows some impressive income levels, but you have to notice the fine print that it's only for top-ranking leaders. To see a more realistic (and not very enticing) view, you have to look at the next chart, which is farther down on the page.
Young Living, to their credit, spells it all out in this Young Living Income Disclosure statement.
It's important to note that the earnings with both companies are reduced by fees to redeem your reward points or even to get paid.
Smaller Oil Selection
When I first wrote this series, doTERRA had very few oils, so if you were looking for a company that could be a one-stop shop, then it wasn't a great option.
They've increased their selection over time, but Young Living still has the advantage here.
Problems with Both Companies
As you can see, when comparing Young Living vs. doTERRA, there are ways in which each is better than the other. However, there are also some negatives that both companies share, mostly due to them being MLM essential oil companies.
There is, however, one particularly odd thing that I found out about both of them.
Young Living and doTERRA Source from the Same Companies
Both companies claim to have a corner on selling the best oils, so it's very problematic (for both of them) that they appear to share the same source for at least some of their oils.
Bio Young Aromas
See the following sources that show that Bio Young Aromas is a supplier for both Young Living and doTERRA.
- https://www.seair.co.in/us-import/i-doterra.aspx (Sadly, it appears that the information about Bio Young is now behind a paywall.)
- Here, however, is documentation showing other purchases from Bio Young by doTERRA.
And here are some Bio Young Aroma purchases made by Young Living.
Kunshan Toxen
doTERRA and Young Living have both purchased from this company as well.
Here is documentation showing Young Living purchases from Kunshan Toxen.
And here is documentation showing that doTERRA purchases from Kunshan Toxen as well.
Basically, despite their claims of being the best, neither company seems to be that special if they are purchasing from the same companies.
I personally am not opposed to the multi-level marketing industry as a whole, but it is important to consider whether essential oil MLM companies are worth it or not.
Who Should Choose Young Living or doTERRA?
- Young Living may appeal to you if you want a very wide selection of oils and blends and prefer a long-established brand with a strong following.
- doTERRA may appeal to you if you value access to GC/MS testing reports and a large support network for learning and using essential oils.
- However, in my experience, both companies have significant concerns—particularly regarding marketing practices, sourcing transparency, and their MLM structure—which is why I ultimately chose not to continue with either one.
For most people, I think it’s worth looking beyond both of these companies—but understanding how they compare is still helpful.
Frequently Asked Questions
Which is better, Young Living or doTERRA?
Neither stands out as clearly better overall. Each has strengths, but both have concerns that are often overlooked.
Are doTERRA oils higher quality than Young Living?
doTERRA is more transparent with testing, but that doesn’t necessarily guarantee higher quality across the board.
Why are Young Living and doTERRA so expensive?
Both companies use a multi-level marketing model, which increases costs due to commissions and incentives.
Conclusion
Both Young Living and doTERRA have some good qualities, but clearly there are a lot of problems with both companies. While both companies have strengths, the concerns outlined above are significant enough that I no longer feel comfortable recommending either one.
My Preferred Source of Essential Oils
I hope to revisit this topic soon, but for now, you can see what happened when I started looking to find a quality essential oil company that I wanted to purchase from.
I started this whole series after spending some time working with both Young Living and doTERRA, but I left both of them and tried to find out what the best essential oil company was.
I plan to revisit this topic in the future and hope to have additional options that you can feel really good about buying.
What do you think about doTERRA vs. Young Living?
Which do you think is better and why?
Perhaps you should check again into the origins of Young Living Oils. They are sourced from all around the world. Also, if there are a few oils from a company that one has issues with, how can you trust any of them. Having just returned from the YL conference, over the course of the week, I must have smelled samples of dozens of oils, sometimes a dozen in a row. I felt just wonderful all week. At the end of the conference, I went to visit a friend in Salt Lake. She brought out all her oils, DoTerra and another “therapeutic grade” brand. I thought it might be interesting to compare them against YL. After smelling about six of hers, I was stricken with such a severe headache. Now, I can’t say with certainty it was those oils, but ….
Hello Janice. I did email product support at YL and was told about farm land in Ecuador and France. And leased land in Oman, which may be different now. They did not send info about any other countries. I can forward or print the content of the email if you like. In my mind, that is too few countries to source from. Perhaps you have different information?
Sorry about the headache. Of course, I don’t know what to say about that.
Since you put so much time and research into this, and since so many people have appreciated that and taken your advice, I thought you might be interested to know that as of today doTERRA has sued Young Living. I am not trying to get you to change your mind about what oils you have chosen that work best for your family. It is your personal choice, and I feel everyone needs to do what they feel is best for their family. But people have been swayed by the things you have written about doTERRA’s Peppermint oil. Recently there was a website that was put up that had false information and false test results about our Peppermint. Certified Synthetic is now only viewable by invitation. It was discovered that the test results were not doTERRA’s peppermint at all. Unfortunately, doTERRA cannot stand by any longer and allow Young Living to defame it’s products, hence the lawsuit. I think it’s sad that people can’t just allow everyone to do what works best for them, and yes you should be informed, but when false information is spread it’s sad. There is enough abundance to go around for everyone.
HI there. Was it proven that YL put that info up? And how did they find out it wasn’t DT’s peppermint? I saw that and was skeptical b/c I knew it could have been anything in the bottle. I do think that Gary Young’s claims about Omani Frankincense are unfounded. The company that I recommended has the Omani Frankincense now as well so YL is for sure not the only company with it.
Yes, they were able to prove that someone from YL put the website up. The reason they know that it was not DT peppermint is because there was a third party analysis of the doTerra peppermint oil, exact same lot number that was reported on the website. There was no question that the menthol level of that lot was over 50%, and of course there was not a trace of the ethyl vanillin. The menthol level on the website report was only in the 30s. Typically DT peppermint never tests below 45% for menthol. The test results were in no way similar.
If you want, I can email you a link to the full lawsuit that was filed.
You mean the original lawsuit? I am familiar w/ that to a point. I find this all very confusing regardless of whether DT is adding stuff or not, it appears their peppermint is redistilled which I don’t want.
doTERRA, as of yesterday, is now suing Young Living because of the website and their false claims about DT peppermint. I am not talking about the lawsuit YL filed against DT last year.
Again, I am not trying to convince you to use DT oils, just wanting you to understand the lengths people will go to discredit DT.
As far as their peppermint oil, I read all your concerns about DT peppermint and what distillation it was. I wanted to find out for myself, and wanted an unbiased opinion, so I contacted Robert Tisserand, who is recognized as a leader and world expert in aromatherapy, and asked him about 1st, 2nd and whole distillation. Here is his reply concerning re-distillation:
“The simple answer is that there is only one distillation. Once it’s done there is no more essential oil left in the plant, so re-distilling it would be pointless.
One exception is ylang-ylang which has 4 different qualities, and they do equate to distillation time. It’s not re-distilled, it just takes many hours, and they separate the first hour’s oil from the next and so on. They don’t have to, but mostly they do.
Some oils are re-distilled, meaning that the essential oil, not the plant, is fractionally distilled to remove toxic or unpleasant constituents. This commonly happens with peppermint oil, and results in a finer-smelling and finer-tasting oil.
Otherwise no, there is no such thing as a second distillation.”
I then asked for a little more clarification knowing that there is some controversy over using a whole distillation as opposed to a first, and the thought that you would get a sweeter smelling peppermint, but that it is not as pure, or a cheaper grade than the first distillation. Here is his response to that query:
“I don’t understand whole as opposed to first. They are the same thing!
‘Purity’ is open to interpretation. If you are seriously purist about essential oils, then you have to accept that bitter almond oil contains cyanide, in its naturally-distilled form. You can’t buy it because it is so toxic, this is by way of illustration. Distillation itself is, you could argue, not a natural process.
The constituents removed from peppermint are sulfur compounds. They are not harmful, and are not especially therapeutic.”
So my take on all of that would be that yes, DT peppermint oil (not the plant) might be re-distilled to take out the sulfur compounds, but it doesn’t change it’s purity or it’s therapeutic qualities. But, to state that the Peppermint is a cheaper grade because of that, is simply false, according to Robert Tisserand. Again, it’s your personal preference, and I’m not trying to argue or sway you on that point.
And that is the whole point of the lawsuit. To stop Gary Young and YL from spreading lies about the quality of DT oils. Purity is their #1 concern. There aren’t any synthetics or anything else added to DT oils.
I am grateful for Free Enterprise so that everyone has a choice to choose the products that work best for them. I Just don’t appreciate all the false and negative statements about other companies, and that goes both ways. If you choose a certain brand to work with, that’s great, tell me all the things that are great and positive about that brand, don’t try to disparage the other brand to make yours look better. This is not a personal attack on you, by the way. You spent many hours testing and experimenting and researching what would be best for your family, I appreciate that. Unfortunately, in your research you came across false statements spread by others, and that misleading information is what I am concerned about.
Well, if you remember from my post, I heard from doTERRA that their peppermint is a complete distill, and that was from Dr. Hill’s assistant. It was Pappas who said it was likely redistilled. So there is a difference of opinion on this and then in another video, I believe Dr. Hill said the peppermint smelled sweet b/c it is made only from the leaves and flowers and then Emily Wright is on video saying it’s b/c it is from Washington. So this is very puzzling to me. NAN’s peppermint is from Washington. And NAN says that it is rare in the industry, but their peppermint is, in fact, 1st distillation. They got this information from the person who distills their peppermint oil. I can clarify more of that if need be. Apparently peppermint is one oil that can be distilled for a long time and the best oil, and most therapeutic, comes from the first distill. So while I respect Tisserand (however, I don’t care for all of the chemicals that he has in the personal care products on his site), and I believe that the owner of NAN does as well, I think it is possible that perhaps someone knows something about oils (or an oil) that he doesn’t.
I don’t think that I spread anything falsely said by others, but I am open to reconsider that. I pointed out the many things that those at the top (and those associated very closely w/ doTERRA–being Pappas, as the man who tests their oils and spoke at their convention) of doTERRA said about their oils. Please let me know if you think I am spreading something false b/c I don’t think so.
Sorry it’s taken me so long to reply to this. I wanted to take the time and re-read some of the things you said and those of Dr. Pappas as well.
I guess my point with all of this was not that you misquoted anything that anyone said, but that what you said and the way you said it would have people believe that doTERRA’s peppermint is not pure, not good quality, cheaper quality, or not therapeutic quality.
**I am putting in my replies in here so that it is easier for folks to follow along. I do think that doTERRA’s peppermint isn’t as good quality as NAN’s. That was my whole point. I find it disconcerting that so many in the upper ranks of DT have conflicting reasons as to why their peppermint smells “different” and then the scientist who tests it says that he thinks it has had compound vacuumed off, and then when I did research on the “problem” with the compound that he is talking about, it appears that he (Pappas) is spreading false information about the compound being in vomit. And even if it is in vomit, food is in vomit, so this is a totally false logical step he is making.**
I am not an oil expert by any stretch of the imagination, but because I use oils, and share the benefits with others, I want to be as accurate as possible about the things I am sharing. That is why I asked Robert Tisserand about distillation. So, now I have two essential oil “experts”, one of whom is a PHD Chemist who specializes in testing essential oils for purity, who have both stated that there is no such thing as a 1st, 2nd or 3rd distillation except in the case of Ylang Ylang. They also state that Peppermint oil can be re-distilled, but it is the oil not the plant material that is re-distilled, and that the purpose of doing that would be to make it a better quality oil.
**I am really sorry, but just b/c someone is a PhD doesn’t mean he is right. My husband has a PhD and he has found TONS of other folks with PhDs who have written totally wrong information about topics he is well-versed in. He has published scholarly articles on it and is taking heat for it b/c he has said that the other scholars are wrong. I know it sounds crazy, but I think Pappas is wrong on this and I think the display of his poor behavior here lends itself to my argument. I am now thinking that I will go ahead and publish his final 1,000+ word comment here this coming week so you all can see more of the nonsense that I had to put up with from him. Additionally, you will see more of his faulty reasoning.
I can only tell you what I did about the 2nd distillation of peppermint oil. NAN says that they learned this from distillers in another country. The owner said that most distillers don’t do it this way but his does. So that means that perhaps Tisserand and Pappas can still learn something this far along in their career. Honestly, I think that it is a bad sign when someone is not open to be shown that he is wrong and I think that is the very attitude that Pappas has shown throughout this series. He has continually said that I don’t have a willingness to learn, but I think that it is he that is the one not being willing to be shown wrong here.
I am open to being shown that I am wrong, but over and over again Mr. Dean of NAN has proven himself to be trustworthy and honest and I haven’t found anything to make me think otherwise. Again, I like Tisserand and think his oils are good quality, but he uses a ton of chemical nasties in his personal care products (in one of his body washes he has:
1. ammonium lauryl sulfate
2. cocomide DEA
3. laureth-7 citrate
4. disodium EDTA
5. sodium benzoate
6. Methylchloroisothiazolinone
7. Methylisothiazolinone
Those last 2 ingredients are 5 on EWG’s Skin Deep Database and cocamide DEA is a 7. This is NOT stuff I want on my skin. It gives me pause to think that someone who says he cares so much about purity would put that stuff in body and personal care products for people to use. Does that make sense?</strong>
I understand your concerns because you supposedly got three different answers from doTERRA as to why their peppermint oil smells sweet, but I would ask you, why can’t all three things be correct? Emily Wright stated it was because it came from Washington, Dr. Pappas stated that origin plays a big part in the way an oil smells, so it would make sense that one from Washington would smell different than one from India as example. Dr. Hill said it was because it was distilled from the flowers and leaves, and then there was the information that it was a complete distillation, or in your words it has been re-distilled. I would tend to believe that all three play a part in the way DT peppermint smells.
**Again, if you read my posts, NAN’s peppermint is from Washington so this doesn’t hold any water. And no, the complete and redistill are 2 different things. Complete is distilling for the whole time that the plant can be distilled. Redistill is to stop distilling and then redistill the plant again.
You are right that more than one thing could be the reason here, but the fact remains that Pappas said he thinks it is b/c it is redistilled and really, almost all of doTERRA’s oils have a very similar sweetish overtone so to me (and others) it seems they are doing something to all of their oils to have the same resulting effect.**
Most people won’t take the time to read through all the comments, and so will not read what Dr. Pappas said about distillation.
**All of what he said is in the posts, I think. And so now I think I will have to republish his comments so all can see them readily.**
They won’t read the part where he says that just because an oil smells too good to be true doesn’t automatically mean it’s a bad oil. He also stated that a sweet oil is NOT a bad oil. He said the best therapeutic oils always smell the best.
**That is totally not true and honestly, makes no sense to me. Many many oils are made to smell better by adulterating and that doesn’t make them more therapeutic. That is his opinion about what is therapeutic. Mr. Dean says that the unadulterated oils are the most therapeutic and I agree with him. Again, his statement about the compound in vomit shows that he could very well be not giving correct information about this all.**
As for re-distillation, he said re-distilled oils are always a better quality. Further processing an oil is not a bad thing, even though it’s usually not necessary, but in the case of peppermint there are undesirable chemicals that are best removed, not only from an odor standpoint, but a therapeutic standpoint as well. He also stated that redistilling oils incurs more cost, and that redistilled will always be a more expensive oil and therefore redistilled peppermint is definitely the most valued. All of his statements would contradict what you infer, that because DT peppermint is redistilled it is a cheaper quality. So, I’m confused as to why a distiller would say his peppermint oil is a first distill if there really isn’t such thing as a first distill, according to the experts.
**Again, I have heard about “experts” heating oils and vacuuming them and putting synthetics into oils to make them more “palatable” or reasonably priced, or to make them pass GC/MS testing. I was thinking I would have Mr. Dean on the site to talk about this. I appreciate you bringing all of this up and will likely do it now.**
Maybe he just meant that his oil does not go through the re-distillation process to take out the compounds mentioned by Dr. Pappas and Robert Tisserand.
**No – he meant that there is a 1st and then a 2nd distill.**
If you want to see the GC/MS tests on DT peppermint you can see them on Dr. Pappas FB page. (**From Adrienne – sorry, Pappas and his FB followers were putting in so many links to promote his page already that I had to go back and delete them all. His FB page clearly grew off my series and I do not wish to promote him anymore after the nasty way he and his FB followers treated me throughout this series.**)
You can also see the tests done by the same company that did the tests on the “alleged” DT oil that was posted on the certified synthetic website. They are listed as Exhibit 3 in the Lawsuit filed by doTERRA against Young Living. Here is a link to the actual lawsuit if you want to read it (**Sorry – again, I am deleting this link. The fact that there is a lawsuit is not enough reason to assume that YL is in the right. YL has a suit against DT right now so this is a faulty logical argument. I saw the info put out by whomever that was about DT’s peppermint and it looked fishy to me.**)
I guess I just have a tough time believing that a company that started with it’s whole mission of bringing the highest quality pure essential oils to the world, would then go out and purposely market inferior quality oils. That doesn’t make any sense to me.
**Well, you are believing that that is their mission. Another mission of all companies is to make money and doTERRA is sure doing that in a big way. I am not saying that they are lying but I am saying that it is very important to “hold companies’ proverbial feet to the fire” (that goes for politicians and others in power as well) and make sure that they are doing what they say. I think that I have brought up things that are disconcerting and that is why Pappas and doTERRA folks are angry with me.**
And apparently, all of the negative things that are said about doTERRA, and all the lies are really having no affect on the growth of the company at all, which must mean something where quality is concerned.
**I think this is faulty reasoning as well. It just means that they are good salesman. Of course, they might have good quality, but that doesn’t prove it. There are a lot of bad companies prospering and a lot of bad churches growing. Growth doesn’t equate with quality. I think most of the small farmers in this world are better quality than the big behemoths.**
Again, my concern is, in trying to find the oil company that best fits your needs for your family, you have implied that DT’s Peppermint is not pure, and not good quality, and there are people who will take your word for it without ever trying to find the truth. Most people won’t read any farther and read the comments with another side to the story.
**I hope that my responses help you see what I am talking about. And I think many read the comments. They have told me that they did. But now I think that I might take yours and Pappas’ comments and make another set of posts so that people can see all of my reasoning, front and center. I really appreciate your dialoguing with me. It keeps me sharp. If you have more thoughts, feel free to share them.**
Thank you for your time in replying to my concerns. I appreciate it.
I feel I should add one more comment. The fact that you not only post all the comments (both good and bad), but then take the time to thoughtfully answer each comment says a lot about your character. Thank you for “listening”.
Elizabeth, I have responded to your comment in with your original comment, so please come and read it. Thank you!!
Ok, I don’t know what else I can add to this, and am rather regretting I ever commented in the first place. I was just trying to clarify information about the lawsuit because I thought you would want to know since it involved the question of purity of doTERRA’s peppermint.
So basically, what you are saying is that two essential oil experts, Pappas and Tisserand, who have been working with essential oils for many more years than you or I, don’t know what they are talking about when it comes to distillation of essential oils? Forgive me if I find that rather hard to believe. Just as you were trying to find answers, that’s what I was trying to do as well, by asking experts. I guess we each just came to different conclusions.
Hi Elizabeth. Sorry for the late reply. Comments about this oils series sometimes take time for me to think that I don’t have at the moment – and then they get buried :). Anyway, what I am saying is that Native American’s farmer in the US says that there are different distillations for peppermint oil–different than for other oils. I think it is quite possible that Tisserand and Pappas don’t know everything that there is to know about oils.
My husband has an MDiv and a PhD and an MA in English lit and he got 4.0s in all of his studies. He is a smart dude. And he knows his stuff and is constantly reading. He has been in English lit since he got out of high school and even then he was very well read. His area of focus is Milton and he has edited a huge bibliography on Milton’s works and he is working on a book and has published loads of scholarly articles on the topic. But I can guarantee that he learns new things about Milton all the time.
Pappas and Tisserand are smart men, but I stand by what I said about Pappas and his vomit and distillation comments. I think he is wrong and I think that his logic was off. I am open to being proven wrong, but I don’t think that I am. If you reread that post I would love to hear what you think.
Tisserand seems to have great oils but I am not comfortable w/ the use of tons of questionable ingredients in his personal care line. Of course, it is possible to do one thing “not pure” and another thing “pure” but I felt I wanted to work w/ a company whose whole product line (if possible) I could recommend to my readers. That is why I didn’t pursue him.
If you would be interested, I can have Mr. Dean write up his knowledge about peppermint distilling. He did it in rough form for me but I could have him tighten it up for you and perhaps I should just post it in a new post.
Thanks again for your interest and I hope you can understand where I am coming from.
Hi, Just came across this post about Tea Tree oil. Thought you might be interested in it. doTERRA’s oil was found to be in compliance while Native Naturals was not.
Hi Elizabeth. I saw that post. Sadly, Lea tested Native American’s Melaleuca, which is Melaleuca quinquinervia. That is a different oil than their Tea Tree, which is Melaleuca alternifolia. Melaleuca is naiouli so the testing came out as one would expect. Did you know that the man doing the testing also tests doTERRA’s oils and has spoken at their convention? He is the man who commented in such nasty manner on my blog. Just thought you might not know of that connection. Thanks for commenting :).
Hi again, Elizabeth. Just wanted to correct myself. Pappas did not test the oils this time for that blogger. Sorry about that :).
It looks like she has updated the website, and corrected the information. I was under the impression that the testing was done by a lab in France called Pyrenessences. Is Dr. Pappas connected to this lab? Even if that is the case, it doesn’t appear as if he is biased to doTERRA products as the first round of testing she posted was on Myrrh essential oil and he clearly stated that he liked sample #3 the best, which was an organic oil from Essential Vitality, and the close second was from Aura Cacia. There was no mention of his opinion of Sample #1, which was doTERRA.
Hi again. I corrected myself in my last reply to you. He did some of the testing – at least the Myrrh one. I saw those results as well. He isn’t connected to the lab in France that I know of. Thanks for replying. 🙂
Just a fair reminder that there is a huge difference in Essential Oils. Young Living Essential Oils are THERAPEUTIC GRADE Essential Oils and let’s not forget that they are used in over 50 hospitals in the US, including Cleveland Clinic. I think that puts some validity in the power of YL oils. I use them personally and my husband healed a form of Macular Degeneration (Macular Hole) using YL oils, NingXia Red, Asataxanthin, D3, C, Clove and Lemon (together, internally, in a capsule). There are way too many people out there that have had more of a positive affect from YL oils than negative. Furthermore, YL does not just have farms ONLY in the US. They have 9 farms total and have 3rd party growers in other countries as well. Gary Young has study for nearly 30 years….not only plants, but soil conditions that they must grow in. People believe all of the negatives they find on the internet because we choose to let fear lead us. I am a huge supporter of Young Living Essential Oils..their integrity and top quality products. If you want testimonials….there are tons of them out there. Here is one website that you can go for thousands and thousands of testimonials: Oil Testimonials. Thank you for allowing me to comment. You’ve taken a lot of time to research, but the proof is in the products. 100% genuine! Since the FDA knows nothing about EO’s and has no idea how to set the standards, at this time, EO’s are considered pure when they only have 5% pure plant oil in the product. The rest is chemically made in labs….they are only perfume grade. If you can’t put it on your skin, you should be smelling it either. Think about toxins and what you’re putting in your body. 😉
Thanks for commenting. I wonder if you have documentation about the 5% plant oil factoid you mentioned. I had heard something similar but couldn’t find documentation for us. I don’t think it is fear, however, that causes people to be concerned about what they read about G. Young. Some of the information is troubling so I wish there were some way to get to the bottom of it.
Hi Adrienne! My mom has been a distributor and user of YL for many many years.. 11 or more. We’ve always loved their products. We’ve read much about Dr. Young and have decided to not let that play a role in our choice to enjoy his oils. Last weekend we met a DT rep, for the first time we learned about this company. My mom felt torn. She got a really good result from using some DT oils with that rep – the pain in her atrophy arm has been gone for 5 days. So today I decided to google “DT vs YL” and your blog was the first on the results.
I must THANK YOU for spending so much of your own time digging and digging, sampling, taking notes, spending your own money and attempting to help others along in their journey of finding the perfect EO company for them. I’ve spent the last hour of my life just reading the comments and your replies. I must give you tons of credit. I wouldn’t have taken so many precious hours of my life, as you have, to rely to most of these posts.
We have placed an order with NAN and are excited to give them a try. I think there’s nothing wrong with being open to different brands and products, taking a bit here and there of what works best.
We will be following your blog from now on, thanks again for all your hard work & dedication!
Welcome and thanks!!!
hi! wow, i stumbled upon all these posts as i’ve been thinking of signing up with either DT or YL and couldn’t make my mind up which one. i’m probably more confused than ever, but i commend you on this very thorough work on this subject! in my searches, i cam across this recently published site-have you seen these studies yet? (Link deleted by Whole New Mom due to it not working anymore) I’d love to hear your thoughts!
I just got that in my inbox this past week. I am not sure what to think. If, in fact, they are certainly doTERRA oils, then that looks highly suspicious. However, it is entirely possible that someone could be smart enough to take a doTERRA bottle and fill it with something else and then, if they are professional enough, be able to put a top back on it. So, while I think this could be incriminating evidence about doTERRA, I can’t be entirely sure. I guess the only way to know is to get a bottle of their oils and submit it to the lab myself, b/c I am not good enough to put a new cap on :).
thank you for the quick response. i hadn’t even considered someone changing the contents of the bottle before it was tested, i guess that’s entirely possible! i found the site a little suspect, since it was clearly created solely to discredit doTerra. very interesting indeed, i guess i’ll continue my internal debate. 🙂
It’s hard to trust the site for me as well. Just b/c it was put together to discredit doTERRA doesn’t mean it is false information, but it’s something to think about.
I would like to commend you on your great work. I wish things in life were more transparent(it would make life easier). I would like to know your thoughts or feedback on Mountain Rose (essential oils) & on Stillpoint Aromatics. I’m always looking for a quality/safe product and it appears that things get blurry & confusing when looking into essential oils. These companies have appealed to me because they offer organic, wild harvested options and are not a MLM. I also like that Mountisn Rose takes a more eco appoarch( or so they claim). I’m open to hear your insight. Once again thanks for your EOs posts.
MRH has conflicting info on internal use. Stillpoint I looked at. I think they looked good but their focus on energies in the oil were a little too much for me. I am really happy w/ where I am
Adrienne,
Thanks for the research you’ve done and the courage to post your findings. I’m new to essential oils and I came across your blog as I began to look for information about companies and what would be considered the “best” oils to use. I’ve learned a lot and I encourage you to continue sharing these and other findings as it definitely adds value.
I am curious about your credentials. What makes you an expert on oils. Just wonder. I have studies oil for years. Many classes certificates but does not make me an expert. My daughter on the other hand has her PHD in Biochemistry. I am just an RN with my ND. I understand everyone has their own opinion and is entitled . Some of yours just is most confusing
Hi Gerrie.
Thanks for commenting. However, I don’t understand your comment. I never said I was an expert on oils but I am trying to learn what I can as I can. I don’t understand what your daughter’s and your certification has to do with my situation but if you can explain more I am willing to answer your questions. What is confusing about what I have written? Thanks.
oh that is good. i do enjoy all the info. You have done such a great job. i learned a lot. the comments take so long, but they are good too.
thank you again. i read most of it. it was so longgggg. sorry.
Yep, I know. And dare I say there might be one more post….