Which Essential Oils Company is Best? ~ Part 6–Personal Attacks, Bias, and Distillation
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Before I move on to the controversial issues in this post, here are the links to the other posts in this series.
– Which Essential Oils Company is Best? – Part 1
– Qualities of a Good Oils Brand
– 14 Tips to Spot Fake Essential Oil Brands
– Young Living vs. doTERRA
– Are Multi-Level Marketing Oils Worth It?
– Announcing “the Best” Essential Oils Company **
**Attention** – Some readers say that they can’t access that last post. If that is a problem for you, could I ask you to comment or email me at adrienne {at} wholenewmom {dot} com, and you can go to this post to get access to the company that I chose. Is Essential Oils Testing Reliable?
Now, back to the controversy.
I am typically not a fan of sensationalist titles for posts, but in this case, I kind of couldn’t resist.
First of all, I need to apologize that I am going to have to push out the “announcement” day of the Best Essential Oils Series–just one more day.
Why? Let me explain.
I really didn’t want to do this, but I felt that with all the controversy going on regarding my review process that I should take time to address more issues that have come up during this series. I want you to know that I am doing my homework and that I take what I am doing very seriously.
If you’ve been following along with the whole Best Essential Oils series, and have read the comments, you’ve seen that there have been a number of statements made, mostly by Dr. Robert Pappas. What you may not know is that he has been commenting about my posts, and my blog, on his Facebook page, and has private messaged me on Facebook a number of times.
I’ve had a load of stuff on my plate these past few weeks (meh–still do), so it has taken me awhile to do enough research into some of his more scientific statements so that I could respond intelligently.
Today I am going to do so. Because of the subject matter, this is going to be a much more lengthy post than usual, but I really thought it all needed to be addressed.
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Source of Information
Pappas has insinuated or directly asserted, that some of my statements with which he disagrees originated with Young Living (YL). That is completely not true. Here is one of his quotes from the comments on Part 4 of the Best Essential Oils Series:
This is just one of many claims that I am repeating information from YLHi, just wanted to clear up some things concerning your comments about 1st, 2nd, 3rd distillations because this is an area of misinformation that, as far as I can tell, originates from the YL reps going back quite a number of years and just never seems to die down.
Yes, I was a Young Living rep, but interestingly enough, the information that I got about these distillations of peppermint came from doTERRA’s support. You can see this in the next section about distillation.
Facts About Distillation of oils -1st, 2nd, 3rd and Complete
At the center of a lot of the controversy regarding my oils series is the distillation methods of oils, particularly peppermint.
I stated in Part 4 that doTERRA’s peppermint oil was a “complete distill.” Here is Pappas response from the comments:
“Who was it that told you their oil was “complete”? The word “complete” is not even a word that anyone in the essential oil industry would even use to describe a peppermint oil. Complete is used to describe a grade of Ylang Ylang oil and thats [sic] about it. Generally the best therapeutic oils also smell the best, at least thats [sic] been my experience.”
Here is an excerpt from the email that I received from the assistant to Dr. Hill, Chief Medical Advisor for doTERRA. Please note that she both uses the word “complete” and also discusses the 3 distillation stages to describe doTERRA’s peppermint.
Please apologize to her [Adrienne], I’m not sure why she didn’t receive the
response. You can let her know that our Peppermint uses complete
distillation. There is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and complete and we use complete.I hope this is helpful!
Thanks,
—
Haylee Caplin
doTERRA Product Support
Pappas also commented:
Anyway, regarding peppermint (and essential oils in general for that matter), there typically is no such concept as a 1st, 2nd or 3rd distillation.
and then later in a comment that I hadn’t approved until now (because I wanted to do more research before putting the information out there):
As for your question about the “1st distillation” I am guessing you might not have read my post completely about this or perhaps you just don’t believe me but this term is NEVER used in the industry and I would strongly recommend that you not use it either because its [sic] a misleading term. There is typically only ONE steam distillation of an oil to remove the oil from its plant material. When people say 1st distillation or 2nd distillation it conjures up images of redistilling the already spent botanical to get a less inferior oil. Nobody does this.
Well, this is a lot of info to digest, but here goes.
First of all, there are a host of references to these 1st, 2nd, and 3rd distillations that I found.
References to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Distillations from Oils Companies
These are references to this kind of distillation that I found doing an internet search.
1. “Even an oil which is quite truthfully described as pure may be of poor quality, and therefore of less value therapeutically. IF AN ESSENTIAL OIL COSTS MUCH LESS THAN YOU WOULD NORMALLY EXPECT TO PAY FOR IT, the oil may well be a third or fourth distillate from a batch of plant material which has already yielded the greater part of its properties to the first or second distillation.” Aromatherapy An A-Z, by Patricia Davis, 1988, reprinted 1994, Saffron Walden, The C.W. Daniel Company Ltd., England, pp. 278-280.
2. “LOW PRICES MAY ALSO MEAN THE OIL IS A SECOND OR THIRD DISTILLATION OF THE PLANT MATERIAL, in which case it will have far less therapeutic value.” – from Holistic Aromatherapy, A. Berwick, 1994, Llewellyn Pub., St. Paul, MN pp. 168.
3. Brambleberry.com sells different distillations of peppermint oils. From their site: Peppermint Essential Oil (1st distillation): This is an herbaceous, sweet smelling peppermint. It is less brisk smelling than the 2nd distillation and contains slightly less menthol
4. From Mountain Rose Herbs’ website: “All of the oils offered by Mountain Rose Herbs are derived from the first distillation–never the second, third or fourth!”
5. From The Herbs Place: “Oil comes from the first distillations of the raw plant material.” when referring to why their oils are therapeutic grade.
I also spoke with several people in the EO field and this is what I heard (of course, given the scope of this post, following are only summaries of these discussions).
a. Most plants are distilled only once because they don’t produce enough oil for multiple distillations.
b. Distillation of Peppermint Oil. I was told that peppermint yields more oil than most other plants and that small farms sell the first distillation for a higher price and that it’s then redistilled at a higher pressure and temperature to be then sold to soap companies, etc. This later distillation will have a less herby smell.
It’s distilled again for a 3rd time for a really sweet smelling, candy cane smell.
I tried to find out the validity of these remarks and why some peppermint smells like candy, while others smells herby, but I couldn’t find any consistent answers despite hours and hours of research.
Pappas has a lot of knowledge about essential oils that I don’t have, but there are a lot of people using these terms in the industry, including those at doTERRA. So it’s clearly a very complicated matter that people have different opinions (including professional opinions) about.
UPDATE 8/16:
Since this series was published, I was given more information from other experts (a distiller and chemists) in the field stating the following about essential oils and the distillation process:
However it is possible to distill one charge of plant using different configurations. The [sic} distiller … could be, for example, performing an atmospheric pressure distillation of the plant for 10 minutes, then increasing the pressure for another period and so on. As long as there is still essential oil in the plant matter this is possible. The more volatile and nice smelling aromatics will be trapped within the first “phase” of an operation like this and subsequent processing will extract higher boiling point components; as the distillation progresses, the compounds will become less desirable, therefore cheaper.
Basically, it’s a very confusing issue as to why some peppermint oils smell ultra sweet and others do not. Perhaps something is being taken out of the oil after distilling. In the case of oils that are not pure, something may be added in. There might be some peppermint oils that are referred to as this “first distillation” that are being sold as being therapeutically superior, but that would be a subjective decision and likely most aromatherapists would want all of the components of the oil, except in the case of ylang ylang (see the following information).
Ylang Ylang is an exception to this rule. It is distilled first for a short time, yielding the most coveted “ylang ylang extra.” The distiller is shut down, the oil collected, and then it is distilled further to produce “ylang ylang 1.
(UPDATE: I just heard that most distillers don’t shut down the distiller, but merely change out the containers to keep the oil grades separate and continue distilling.) This continues to subsequently produce “ylang ylang 2” and “ylang ylang 3.” Then, all 4 varieties of ylang ylang are combined to make “ylang ylang complete,” which is preferred by some, but is priced lower than “ylang ylang extra.”
The basic thing to keep in mind through all of this is that you want to purchase your essential oils from a company that you trust to sell only quality, pure, unadulterated oils from indigenous locations.
Bias and Motivation
On his Facebook page, Pappas and his followers have talked about what my motives are:
Perhaps it will all be clear on Tuesday when she makes her great reveal….I can’t help but question the motives here.
There were also numerous statements by Pappas that his company doesn’t sell oils, but that he is merely an unbiased chemist who educates and tests oils for various companies.
He is the man who tests oils for doTERRA. That means he is inherently biased. doTERRA pays him to authenticate the quality of their oils so, I don’t see how it could be that he doesn’t have an interest in their oils being represented as being superior.
(Please note that Pappas’ relationship with doTERRA changed since the initial publishing of this post and he no longer tests their oils apparently.)
If doTERRA does well, Pappas does well. At least on some level.
Again, as for my bias, it is for finding an oils company with the best qualities that I can find, at the best price.
Nothing more. If the company that I recommend ends up having ethical or quality issues, then I won’t recommend them anymore. Plain and simple.
There are loads of money-making opportunities that I have passed up because I can’t, in good conscience, take them. I have blocked the URL’s of companies whose ads I disapprove of, all of which have led to less income for me.
One other point that I am a little confused about: Pappas has said over and over again that he is very concerned that I am putting out wrong information about the oils. I am a lover of information as well, so I appreciate that.
However, in one of his comments to me, regarding my questioning why Emily Wright and David Hill are spreading apparently incorrect information about their peppermint oil, his reply was:
What they say in their marketing is not something I concern myself with with, just as its not my concern what any other company who sends me samples for analysis does with their marketing descriptions.
I don’t understand why Pappas thinks it’s crucial to correct apparent misinformation that comes from me, but not misinformation that comes from what is likely his main employment source, and one of the biggest sources of EO information in the U.S.
Vomit and Peppermint Oil
Sorry for the sensationalist title here.
In the comments section of Part 4 of the series, Pappas states:
The thing about peppermint oil is that when its [sic] freshly distilled it contains very tiny amounts of some sulfurous components as well as some small aldehydes (namely isomers of isovaleraldehyde, also found in vomit) that, while minuscule in percentage, are such powerful components that you can smell them at ppm levels. The effects of these components can be minimized with age and evaporation because they are very volatile, but another way to get rid of these undesirables is to take the crude freshly distilled oil and then use a different distillation setup to fractionally vacuum distill away this tiny amount oil, thus giving the remaining oil a much better flavor, sweeter aroma…
Well, again, I am not an expert here, but I looked up isovaleraldehyde and vomit and there were no mentions of isovaleraldehyde being in vomit. The only connections between the two seem to be that exposure to isovaleraldehydes can lead to vomiting. I would need to see sources for this information because I couldn’t find any. In fact the main (almost all) results of my search were only Pappas stating this on my blog and on various Facebook pages.
Additionally, even if isomers of isovaleraldehyde are in vomit, that does not make them problematic. For example, water and stomach acid are in vomit and so is food. I drink water and eat food daily and I even take stomach acid to aid digestion and it basically served as a cure for rosacea for me.
I can understand some people finding the “herby” smell of 1st distill (or non re-distilled) peppermint to not be as pleasing as the “candy cane” smelling peppermint (like doTERRA’s). However, that does not mean that it induces nausea. In fact, peppermint oils that have not been redistilled, or adulterated / changed by vacuuming are regularly used for nausea and digestive upset. See my post on Peppermint and nausea.
Moderating of Comments–Censoring?
Pappas and his followers have commented numerous times that I am not approving his and other related comments.
Here is one quote from his Facebook page (which contains numerous postings which insult me):
In case anyone has been following the discussion over at The Whole New Mom blog there was a post from Adrienne directed to me that never did get answered. I actually did answer her questions but for some reason my answer was never approved to be public. Since there where people here waiting for my response I am posting it here how it should have read, in case anyone was wondering what my answer was.
and this:
Wonder why she is too afraid to let me post unmoderated and she let you right on through. This is just too weird. It feels like I am dealing with YOU KNOW WHO LOL
The “YOU KNOW WHO” that Pappas is referring to seems to be a large essential oil Direct Sales Company, or at least that’s the best I can ascertain, based on his previous comments.
and this:
Thanks Syl [meaning Sylla Shephard Hangar, mentioned below] great to see you back into things as well. She had posted here, unmoderated I might add LOL
First of all, comments on Facebook, to my knowledge, can’t be moderated once they are posted. They can only be deleted (or edited) by the admin of a page or edited or deleted by the person who posted them. So Facebook comments and blog comments are completely different things.
On my blog, I do have all comments moderated. I do that so that I can keep malware, blatant self-promoting, and foul language, etc. off of my blog.
When there are particularly intense comments, I take awhile to respond and yes, sometimes comments fall through the cracks. But I am not moderating them in order to censor people. To the contrary, I think that I approve many more negative comments than most bloggers. I enjoy the back and forth of ideas and think it’s healthy to debate. Many bloggers consider negative comments to be from trolls and so they delete and all – but I don’t do that.
But I do not think verbal abuse and rude behavior are OK.
Many bloggers moderate comments and I have only once, in 2 years of blogging, had someone email me to ask why I hadn’t approved their comment. In this case, Pappas private messaged me on Facebook several times, asking me why I wasn’t approving his. (I have heard that now you need to pay to private message non-friends on Facebook, but I haven’t verified this yet.)
However, one thing that really concerns me is his (and his followers’) accusations on his Facebook page that I am not willing to get the truth out or that I have something to hide. To the contrary, that is why I held comments in moderation–because I wanted time to get to the bottom of things as best as I could before posting their information.
Some examples of what has been said about me:
By Pappas:
Wow, I guess this is what happens when people start fearing having other people around who know more than they do. Instead of wanting to learn more themselves they turn to protection mode so they can be the star of the show. Sad really. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, even defended her a couple of times. It is upsetting though when she directed questions specifically at me and I attempted to answer but she won’t let me respond so people think I just chose to ignore her. Oh well, I have enough to keep me busy anyway. Thanks for trying.
I am not someone who fears having others with whom I disagree. I thrive on learning and have been interviewing many companies in preparation for this series.
And I will do so again in a future series on Heavy Metal Toxicity.
Here is another comment by Ann McIntire Wooledge:
She has really started a stir and I guess that’s what she planned on, but she is ultimately making herself look rather uninformed and UNeducated. The best thing she could do now is to just admit she doesn’t even know what a chemical constituent is and much less how to decide where would be the best company to buy essential oils – and stop this stupidity.
and more (this by Pappas):
That blog site is the most confusing I have seen in a while. I cannot even see a link to Part 5, how the heck did you find it?
and yet another (by Sylla Sheppard-Hanger):
scrolled thru the nonsense of her facebook page to find
one more by “Cher Aromapothecare”
Excellent reply Dr. P. (The girl could use a class). I agree, CO2 (or perhaps florasols) would be maybe a little closer representation of a plant but even that’s a stretch.
more (this by Pappas):
What really ticks me off about is that she makes some honest mistakes concerning essential oils in general that alot [sic] of people make, then I go on there and write an in depth post to clear some things up and she doesn’t let it through. I don’t know maybe I am taking this too personal. I really don’t care who she concludes is the best oil company I only wanted to clear up misconceptions and general points. It reminds me of when I posted on some YL rep sites to get them good info only to be banned because the facts were not jiving with the programming from their messiah [sic].
and finally (again by Sylla Sheppard-Hanger)
all we can do is expose her and better yet the statements….its given me plenty of fodder for my new blog series!!!
Enough, eh? I frankly am really disgusted by this behavior.
I am really disappointed at the behavior and negative comments were thrown my way throughout this and hope that they will stop.
About Me
Just to set the record straight, I don’t typically post my “credentials,” but in this case I think they are warranted.
I don’t have an advanced degree, but the learning I have done since my undergraduate degree has been extensive.
Here is my background:
1. Top of my class in high school from a top-level school.
2. Phi Beta Kappa from The University of Virginia, one of the top 15 schools in the country.
3. Echols Scholar at The University of Virginia. Admission to the Echols Scholar program is made based on “In brief, the Office of Admission looks for academic excellence, intellectual leadership, and evidence of the ability to grapple with complex topics.” (Source). Apparently, this group is representative of the top 2% of the University. Graduated with a 3.97 GPA.
4. Taught Equity Options Valuation at the Chicago Board of Trade to options traders and MBAs
5. Worked as a Manager in Employee Benefits
6. Independent Life, Health, and Disability Agent for 7+ years
7. Taught in Japan for one year and achieved near conversational fluency.
8. Research-minded mom of a child with life-threatening food allergies.
9. If I might jokingly add this, one of my local friends has called me the “investigative reporter” of health food and products.
Basically, what I am saying here is…I am not a genius, but I am not an intellectual slouch either. I don’t mean this to discredit anyone else, but I am a deep thinker and am very concerned about excellence in research and learning and in conveying accurate information to you.
One final point. A few folks on Pappas’ Facebook page have commented that I have removed links to Pappas’ Facebook page and website. At first, I left all links left by Pappas and his followers, but I ended up going back through and deleting them because they were:
1. excessive and
2. resulted in basically blatant self-promotion.
Pappas doesn’t allow advertising for oils companies on his page and I am choosing not to permit the promotion of sites that deride my character in this manner. At the beginning of this matter, Pappas seemed to be congenial, but as you can see from the comments above, that has changed.
If Pappas’ and his followers’ behavior changes and I receive an apology that is not followed by more maligning, then I will consider allowing the links.
Troubling Questions
One thing that surprised me is that I think that the concerns I posted about Young Living were more controversial, and yet, to my knowledge, I haven’t received any negative comments from any YL reps. When I signed up with doTERRA I heard from a lot of reps how negative and accusatory they felt the YL reps were.
Not in my experience.
Just to make it clear:
I am not saying that Robert Pappas doesn’t have significant qualifications by any means. He has extensive studies in the chemistry of oils and I don’t. Clearly, there must be a reason or reasons for the differing facts here, or at least there is a different way of looking at the industry.
– Is it because he is mainly a chemist and the former owner of The Perfumery?
– Is it because he worked for / was closely connected with doTERRA?
– Why does he concern himself so much about what “little old me” says when the owners of doTERRA contradict each other–and him–while speaking around the world, via meetings, videos and more, to audiences much bigger than mine?
– Why has he spilled so much electronic ink to challenge and insult me when none of the other oils companies that have been critiqued in my posts have expressed any concern?
I don’t know. I am just trying to share what I am learning so that you can make a better decision about what essential oils you want to use for your family.
The Essential Oil Company I Chose
To find out which essential oil company I ended up with at the end of this search, read this post:
– Announcing “the Best” Essential Oils Company – Part 7
you can also read the other parts of the series here:
Other Best Essential Oils Posts:
– Which Essential Oils Company is Best? – Part 1
– Best Essential Oils -What a Good Oils Company Should Have – Part 2
– Which Essential Oils Company is Best – Troubles with the Oils Industry – Part 3
– Young Living vs. doTERRA – Part 4
– Are Multi-Level Marketing Oils Worth It? – Part 5
– Announcing “the Best” Essential Oils Company – Part 7
I’m sure your head is spinning just like mine was. I really only wanted to find the company that would provide high quality oils for my family at a decent price, without a bunch of headaches and extra costs attached to it. But I ended up with quite a headache here.
A Great Essential Oils Book for Your Library
One thing that really interests me is making my own essential oils blends.
This book has loads of essential oils blends in it as well as information about sourcing your own medicinal herbs. Fascinating!
The Essential Oils Book: Creating Personal Blends for Mind & Body
Thanks for hanging in there with me.
I’d love to hear your thoughts (but I reserve the right to moderate comments :-)).
The information here is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a medical professional before changing your diet, exercise program, or before trying any natural remedies.
Adrienne oxidation of essential oils is not going rancid though, oxidation does occur as i said before. why cant i post a reply anymore…..
Thanks. Finally getting to some of this. I did see that in a number of places. There are a few sites that do talk about rancidity of oils if they aren’t distilled properly or have a high waxy content. The reply issue is something I can fix internally. It limits how many folks can reply in a thread. I’ll go expand it a little. Thanks and sorry about that.
Adrienne,
I’ve enjoyed this series and really appreciate the time and effort you’ve put into the subject. It is something I’ve been meaning to investigate for myself and you saved me a lot of time and effort. I generally ignore comments because all too often they devolve into the sort of dogmatic nonsense and name-calling you are experiencing. Not this time. IMHO, you have been thorough, honest and unbiased in your research. When disagreement turns into personal attacks you can be certain that someone is feeling threatened. Odds are they have run out of facts so all they have left are insults and lame attempts at intimidation in order to silence you. Stay strong!
Again, thank you for these posts. I’ve learned a lot from them.
Beth
Thanks, Beth. I think that, in this case, some of these people think they are right. I am willing to assent that I am wrong, but I am hearing these things from too many reputable people so I will keep digging as I can and try to sort it out. Thanks!
I am so sorry. The personal attacks are ridiculous and such low behavior to fall to. I am shocked that you are getting this much slack from simply sharing your own research. Seems like you have hit a nerve. I am so glad you are doing this series.
I’ve felt the virtual violation as well, I pray that you keep a tough skin and remember all of us who appreciate you 🙂
Thanks, Sara. So nice to hear from you as well!!
Adrienne,
I just want you to know I am totally and completely on your side! I think this may be the first time I’m commenting, but I have been an avid reader of your blog for a while now. I too am dealing with candida issues and possibly adrenal fatigue and I appreciate SO MUCH all the time, effort, and energy you put in to sharing all of this wonderful information with us. There have been times I feel like just collapsing in despair, not knowing how to get myself back to better health. But every time I read your blog I feel hopeful that I can find answers. Thank you. These attacks on your character are absolutely shameful and ridiculous. I don’t think I have anything else to say – I just wanted to let you know that you have another person cheering you on! And these commenters who are complaining about various things – for heaven’s sake! It’s not like they’re putting in this time and effort to share information with us!
Thank you so much. I am really feeling like I am getting better from candida and AF. Did you see my heavy metals post? I hope to do a series on that soon. If you need more info let me know.
Hi Adrienne, I just recently found your website and I have been reading with great interest your posts on EO. I can’t wait for the final recommendation. I just have to say how impressed I am with your level of professionalism, objectivity and research into this subject — finally a source of unbiased, thoroughly researched and documented information! It is truly shameful how obnoxious and unprofessional Pappas, Sheppard-Hanger, McIntire Wooledge and others are behaving. It appears to be all self serving, but their comments should not have turned to vituperation. Thank you so much for all of your hard work. You indeed have my respect and full attention. Best to you!
Thanks, Kathy. Well, I am doing my best. I will say that I can’t for sure visit fields, look at every single company and do oils testing myself but I am relying on folks whom I think are trustworthy to sort all of this out. Thanks!!!
Hi , I feel so inundated by all of this bickering..You get paid to write this Dr.Pappas gets paid to research E.O. You both know what you know…why twist it and make the beauty of the oils power into just something to write about.The (whole) reason I started using E. O. ‘s to begin with was to have some control over my own well being.Do you know that the ancient meaning of that sense of wholeness and completeness is Peace?
Hi. Sorry this has bothered you. I am just trying to write what I have learned and my character has been attacked. I felt I needed to respond and get things out in the open and addressed so that it would hopefully stop. It’s not about bickering to me–it’s about finding out the truth and then defending my character. Does that make sense? Thanks. I think letting someone attack your character is not peaceful. It is letting people do wrong. Happy to respond if you have more thoughts and thanks for reading.
I really feel like you have been very good at handling this. I read the comments on #4 and was shocked. I really don’t think I could have pulled that off with such dignity.
After reading the comments, I cancelled my order for doTerra products. If I saw such things from the YL peeps, I would cancel my account with them as well.
How you treat other people is of utmost importance, after all.
Thank you for the encouragement. Just because a company is associated with folks who aren’t kind doesn’t mean that their product isn’t good, but I would prefer to work with those who are kind as well :).
I’ve been reading all of the comments to see if I can find out what you think of Ananda? I can’t really find anything. I am not loyal to any one company, but have purchased a few oils from Ananda. They seem to be good quality, and the price is lower than the YL oils (even with my discount).
Any thoughts on this company?
I’ve mentioned them a few times. I will be happy to answer more on individual companies after I share where I’ve chosen to go….hopefully that works. That way all can compare where I am going to where I didn’t go. Does that work?
Yes yes! That is good. 🙂 Thanks!
I found your blog about the time you posted the first article about which essential oil company is best. I was intrigued because I have been trying to decide for myself what essential oils are best so that I can incorporate them into homemade body care items and cleaning products for myself. I have waited patiently, checking back numerous times, and honestly can’t wait for your final verdict! It seems you must have rumpled some “feathers” along the way, but I am here to tell you that I appreciate all the hard work and phone calls you have made to get to the bottom of the matter. I believe your work will ultimately help me decide which essential oil to purchase. I had already concluded that I would purchase from Mountain Rose, but I did not do anywhere near the amount of research that you did. It seems to me one of your detractors must be driven purely by his reputation and ultimately, money. It seems the question must simply be this: Que bono???
Thanks, Terri. I so hope to share this coming week :-). Should be fun and a real learning experience I think.
Wow, Adrienne – I am just amazed and appalled. Amazed at the grace with which you have handled the mud-slinging, and appalled that you have even had to handle anything at all. I am so sorry to have to read this blog post where you have to address such issues and defend your blogging. But the good thing that has come from this is you know you have a tremendous backbone of support from your readers!
I have been following your blog for awhile, and have been waiting anxiously for your decision! At this point, I am using Aura Cacia, Wyndmere, and NOW EOs simply because they are the ones available at my local health food store. I’m looking forward to the revealing! Keep your head up 🙂
Thank you so much! I lost your comment in the pile – sorry about that! Thanks for the encouragement!
Hi Adrienne! I found your site while Googling for YL this evening and I’ve been reading information here for nearly 2 hours now. My friend sells YL, swears they are the best (as most members of MLMs do) but encouraged me to do research on my own before making any purchases of their products. This is the year that I start a new journey for my family for more all natural products and getting away from the unhealthy medicines/foods that are poisoning us slowly. While my journey has just begun in the world of EOs, your site has provided me with some great starter information. My friend also told me of the YL/doTerra disputes, sad that two companies would get into airing their dirty laundry out at one another but that must be the nature of the game. I’ve made no decisions yet on what I plan to do with purchases but I have gained a lot of knowledge in my time here. Thank you for your hard work researching the details. Keep up the great work!
Hi there. I can’t believe your comment got lost in this pile – so sorry! It also ended up in my spam file for some reason. Anyway – hope you are still hanging around and hope to hear from you again!
Kudos to you for tackling this subject, and doing so with courage and objectivity.
It’s hard to maintain an open mind about a company when a perceived leader or spokesperson of that company seems to be behaving in a defensive and irrational manner. From personal experience, I have observed that some MLMs can develop cult-like characteristics. In my view, one of those cult-like characteristics can be a tendency for a leader or figurehead of the company to react with complete intolerance to anyone whose opinion doesn’t conform with their image of the organization. This is followed by unquestioning, single-minded agreement by the sales force. This type of drama is a red flag, at least for me.
From reading your blog, it seems clear to me that you are posting your observations and any information you have found on the subject. Your conclusions are your own, and I assume that you invite your readers to check the facts for themselves if they choose to, and draw their own conclusions.
Which is why rational responses from essential oil companies would be understandable and wonderful. Drama and accusations are disturbing and do not reflect well on the company.
As a person who strongly believes in the values of aromatherapy and essential oils, I’d prefer to see a high level of professionalism within the industry.
Thanks for commenting, Susan. I really appreciate your sentiments. Of course I invite my readers to check the facts for themselves. I am just one person with a loaded plate. Too loaded sometimes, hence my posts on adrenal fatigue. All in moderation, right? I hope to see you around again!
Thank you so much for all your work! This is amazing. I’ve been obsessively reading online about all these things and was so happy to find your blog. I came to EO’s through doTerra, but I have been stocking up through Mountain Rose. If you can believe everything on their site, they seem like a good merging of quality and price. “IF!!” I wish I wasn’t such a skeptic and could relax and just buy stuff with out thinking about it! Anyway, thanks for your help and I really, really look forward to your conclusions!!!
Thanks. It is hard. I was talking with MRH again today. Interesting information. :).
“Interesting information” so cryptic!! I’ll be eagerly waiting the big reveal of your conclusions! 🙂
Not too cryptic really…I had to ask for more info. Looking forward to it as well :).
I am so impressed with how you have handled this. Some of the comments have been very condescending and you definitely took the high road.
Thanks so much. I really appreciate it.
Hi
I am not a commenter, generally. However, I hate that Pappas’ has ruined the tone of this post, and all comments. I love your research, don’t know if at this point I will change from doTerra because of the experience I have had. With that said, I deem from all this that doTerra won’t be your pick. since you answered a comment that you were cancelling your distributorship.
Thanks-
Thanks for commenting! Well, I don’t know what else to do. It is very hard for me to remain with a company that obscures or obfuscates so much information….oils used in blends, sourcing of oils, why peppermint smells the way it does…and I do now think that the details of who David Hill is on their site is misleading as well. I’ll be interested to hear what you think about my choice. What do you think about those details?
Well! I’m pretty new to all this truly healthy lifestyle stuff, and I’m very new to EOs. I’ve appreciated what you’ve had to say, I’ve learned a lot! Thank you!! (I mean really new, I started on week 4 and had to backtrack! LOL). Anyway, thank you for the information.
Being as how I’m new to EOs (I never liked them at all before, however after just ordering some from Mountain Rose and stopping again by my local health food store (in a very small town) I now realize I’ve never liked EOs because all the ones sitting on the shelves in the stores that I’ve smelled are rancid!!). Anyway, being as how I’m so new, I had no idea who YL & doTERRA were. However, from *other* experience I’ve had in MLM companies, it can be an [i]extremely[/i] vicious world out there. The “brainwashing” and condescending attitude towards all others can be very repulsive. I’ve done more than one different MLM company, all of which I’ve left with ZERO intention of doing another one again. I’ve found in my experience, people who work with those products can only think within the very small tunnel that exists of their product. Granted, I’ve always tried to blow it off as I figure they are just trying to make money, of course they’d be biased! But when attitudes turn from superior to mean, well, it’s always been time to walk for me.
I should have clarified in my post.(and I can’t figure how to edit)…I don’t believe the attitudes and nastiness comes from the companies. As with anything, people are passionate about what they chose to be passionate about. And while I’ve known many people who do MLM products that are moderated and balanced, as with all things in life, there are many zealous ones as well. I believe it is the individuals, not necessarily the company.
You are correct about that. I have to edit the comments–readers can’t. Thanks for coming back to clarify!
I’ve just been reading about the shelf life of oils so that’s a new arena for me. Rancid is not a good thing. I think MLM reps come into the business thinking they’ll be making a ton of money with no work and it just isn’t so. And when you have just one source of income it’s a big deal. You need to be willing to walk if you find the product isn’t that good, in my opinion. But that’s hard once you’ve put in a lot of work. Thanks.
That’s it! Every time someone asks me about one that I have done the first thing I say is “it’s work. Just like real life. You won’t make any money if you don’t work really hard to make it.” I think sometimes the trap that people get into and the unfulfilled expectations can bring out nastiness. Sad. (And again, I don’t mean it’s everyone who sells MLM products).
Anyway – thanks for ALL your information. It’s been helpful to me. I’m sorry it turned personal on you, that doesn’t accomplish anything.
Thanks, Amanda. Basically, isn’t it that many MLMs think that they have created just THE best product and that they are THE best company and you need to believe it with all your heart and soul in order to sell it. I have been in some in the past…one of them actually sang “Carry Your Candle” (of their company) at their national convention and it was pretty ridiculous. I quit soon after.
@Amanda, EO’s dont go rancid, that is a faction for vegetal or carrier oils, like almond and other fatty oils. Fractionated coconut is one carrier that does not go rancid, thus its use as a massage blend. Essential oils odor can go off when old, and some become more sensitizing (citrus/pines) but they do not go rancid!
Interesting you say this, Sylla. I was just reading a few things on this this week. I assume you would agree that Tisserand is one of the world’s foremost EO experts, correct? He says that they do go rancid.
I am looking into this further. Thanks.
of course I know Robert Tisserand, we are some of the vintage people!! Im sure he was referring to carriers, vegetal oils, they combine with oxygen over time, thus people recommending vitamin e in blends (of eo and carrier) that may sit around. Show me where he says this, and I will turn a back flip….:-)
He talks about oils oxidizing and needing to store them in the 3rd section of this article. It doesn’t look like he is talking about carriers at all.
good article, no backflips! he is saying eos get oxygenated not “go rancid”, though there can be rancidification of fatty oils from oxidative damage (or microbial and hydrolytic ) it’s just a confusion of terms. So oils do get old and the citrus and conifer oils can get oxygenated making them more irritant and sensitizing, but we dont call that rancid.
Please email tisserand for clarification if you don’t believe me! His blog is full of great clarifications and myth busters.
I cant post on your site anymore because original comments have yet to be approved where I shared some educational links, and my reply to your comments after I apologized. hope you get this thru here. But you can send me private email if you have further questions
Sylla,
I have always thought that oxygenation equals rancidity and so that is why I cited that article. Of course, you know that I am very new to this, but likely now know more than the average EO Dabbler on the street.
Anyway, now that I have looked it up more I see that most sites say that EOs don’t go rancid but there are a few that do. I did find that one site said that there are a few oils that can go rancid and they are plants that are high in plant wax or aren’t distilled properly.
I do think I had a conversation with someone in the industry this week about this so I would like to get that info before feeling I’ve looked into it enough.
I appreciate your info. However, I am concerned that you are bringing up the moderation of comments again. Are you still taking issue with me about this?
Can you please explain to me what you mean about “I cant [sic] post to your site anymore”? Are you saying you won’t because of how I am choosing to moderate comments?
I didn’t post your links because you didn’t respond to me about saying you were going to “expose me” and that I had given you a lot of “fodder for your blog”. I don’t consider that kind of treatment to be ok to merely gloss over and so I decided not to post a comment with merely links of information and no further reply to my question to you about that rude comment. That needs to be addressed before I can continue this conversation since, as I said, maligning my character is something I just can’t tolerate here. I’m sure you would feel the same way if I were to treat you this way about your blog.
I look forward to your reply and I hope you can understand.
What a mess! Can you just get the the point and tell us which essential oil company is best in your opinion? This discussion has been going on for over a year!
Hi Maria. I would like to get to the point and I will be. But I think you can understand that there is little value of saying “Buy from this company” without explaining why I think so. I would think a lot of folks would just think it was self-serving. I did consider it, though.
And actually, it’s “only” been 10 months. :). If I started telling you all we’ve been through it would fill up another page. And I know plenty of other bloggers who have started series and never finished them. Let’s be charitable, OK? :).
Adrienne, thanks for all the research you are doing. Will you be addressing any like Aura Casia? I considered selling EOs last summer and then discovered that a close friend had signed on with doTerra, so I nixed that. Also, I am leary of MLM companies, since I think mostly they are really overpriced, I sold Mary Kay for a couple of years and the rep marks it up 50%. Nobody I know personally makes a living selling thru MLMs and end up with tons of inventory and money wasted.
I personally have been using EOs from Earthfare and Vitacost for a couple of years–mostly Aura Casia and Simplers. I have had outstanding results from both, although we only use basics such as lavender, ecalyptus, lemon, etc.
I will address AC but I’ve not heard of Simplers. The list goes on and on, eh? Hang with me. I do know a few people making good MLM money, but some are just raking it in w/o much support. One of the commenters on this post–Lacey–is a very thoughtful MLM rep. She is going to be publishing a post this coming week on the MLM model and I hope to read her whole series on it. I think it will be great. I am, in full disclosure, a rep for the same company she is with, but I haven’t put it on my blog yet. I have found it to be a refreshingly different company. I also am a rep for Lilla Rose and have been thrilled with them. Never saw any ugliness or “over the top” marketing. Just simple, good stuff.
Hey, I really appreciate Pappa’s comments! At least now I know where NOT to buy my oils. They shouldn’t be worried about YOU doing any ‘damage’ to doTerra – THEY are doing a great job at it themselves!
Sarcasm aside, I am sorry you have to go through this!! I love your blog and trust your advice. Don’t let any bullies throw you off course. Integrity always wins over insults.
Thanks, Marion. I really appreciate all the support, but let’s be charitable. I’m not angry about anyone’s responses, I just don’t want a bunch of mud thrown around from here either. :). There is another 1000+ word comment of his in my “pending” folder but it is going to take time to respond to and I am really swamped. Thanks!
I have been trying to figure out the whole (complete) part of distill. I diffently was confussed on Dr. Pappas therory. I knew 1st,2nd and 3rd did exsist. I found info about complete on Auria Casia that I believe might be the same as the way Doterra distills their peppermint. Aroma Web also has a good explaination on complete distill. I also looked up Dr. Pappas. Very very interesting how after watching him at a conference with Doterra it makes me wonder why the lies? It seems, by the comments on your blog, that many people like Doterra oils. After, reading the amount of stuff I did on D. Pappas I would be extremely concerned why doterra picked him. I wanted to go buy first distill and see if it smelled like vomit. I think Dr.Pappas has made a mess for Doterra. Anyway, I need oil and hope to see your review on addional companies in your next post.
It is all very confusing. I hope the review will be up early to mid next week. Thanks!!! Barring an emergency…Thursday at the latest.
Hi, Adrienne –
Where did you find your info on doTERRA’s site re Hill? That verbiage I could live with.
Here’s the link to the info (also included) I found on Dr. David Hill:
(Link deleted by Whole New Mom due to it not working anymore.)
/—————————————————————
“David Hill, DC
Chief Medical Advisor
Chairman, Scientific Advisory Board
Extensive experience qualifies Dr. Hill to stand at the head of a new era of education and understanding of natural medicine and essential oils. He remains on the cutting edge of technology by immersing himself in research, and is dedicated to educating and empowering others to take control of their own health.
For nearly a decade Dr. Hill worked locally as a physician in family practice to provide valuable essential oil insight into the traditional protocols and practices of modern medicine.
Dr. Hill is well recognized in the field of integrative medicine and essential oils, and as such he has been invited to interact with a number of large, established hospitals including Beth Israel and Vanderbilt University Medical Centers, consulting with them on ways to integrate CPTG Certified Pure Therapeutic Grade®* essential oils into modern medical practice.”
————————————————————–/
I did hear about his heading up a clinic and yes, also something about the lawsuit regarding a death.
I totally agree with your points re credentials; credentials do not an expert make necessarily for sure.
Not everyone knows what DC means and a “worked as a physician in family practice” makes it sound awfully like he’s a MD, wouldn’t you agree? Does it make him less knowledgeable if he’s not an MD? Absolutely not. But it makes it seem suspicious when you use semantics to make someone seem like something they’re not.
Perhaps I’m reading more into it as I have from the beginning felt a little duped by doTERRA. Not that the $35 is going to make me any richer, but I do also regret not looking into things a little further before I signed up although I did get a nice little package or oils from my upline for doing so, so it wasn’t a total loss.
As I’m old and have worked for a VERY long time, one thing I’ve become passionate about is making sure I work for a company that stands behind their people whether they’re employees or independent contractors doing sales for them.
This means no funny stuff about who the CEO’s are, and no funny stuff about the products. Neither has to be perfect, but tell me why and what you plan to do to correct that, if anything.
So too bad. Sigh.
I just realized it looks like it was copied from the doTERRA site and they have now changed their website. It is owned by Tom Anson and he is a doTERRA distributor. His site looks strangely like doTERRA’s site and I wouldn’t like it out there if I were doTERRA. It is very confusing and hard to figure out that it isn’t doTERRA themselves.
I agree that the wording they have chosen sends a very wrong message. He is not an MD and it shouldn’t be listed that way.
I don’t know anything about Dr. Hill, and am not attempting to comment on his trustworthiness, one way or another, BUT our chiropractors have told us that they were actually trained in school for family practice, and the only reason they can’t do the whole “family practice” thing is that chiropractors aren’t legally licensed to do so in our state. So it is not necessarily stretching the truth for a DC to be listed as family practice, and it’s quite possible that people local to him would know exactly what DC means, depending on his location.